while i have answered several discussions over the years this is my first thread. my question involves the use of the term "nurse". i thought that the term was protected by law in most states. my understanding was that only people who were rn's or lpn's could use the title nurse. am i wrong?
over the past few years, i have seen ads of a veterinary corporation (banfield) looking for "pet nurses". a typical ad looks like this: taken from the banfield website at http://www.banfield.net/careers/other_positions.asp.
description
general function the petnurse supports the veterinarians in ensuring quality veterinary care for all pets, advocates for pets, educates clients on all aspects of pet health, and ensures a safe and effective hospital environment. duties and responsibilities act as the extra eyes, ears and hands for the veterinarian to ensure the best quality pet care and to maximize the veterinarian's productivity. lead veterinarians and veterinary medical team through the cycle of service and communicate with the other team members to maintain the flow of patients. provide professional, efficient and exceptional service at all times. this includes performing procedures that do not require veterinarian assistance, completing preparatory work for other procedures, ensuring that clients and pets are comfortable in the hospital, and monitoring hospitalized or surgical pets. educate clients about optimum wellness plans, preventative care, pet health needs, any diagnosis or treatment, hospital services and other issues. obtain relevant information and history from clients and maintain proper and complete medical charts. ensure the safety of pets, clients and team members by utilizing safe restraining techniques, following standard protocols, and maintaining clean, sterile and organized treatment areas, exam rooms and labs. perform other duties as assigned. petnurse profile working condition: physical ability - ability to work with and around pets (and clients) with complete comfort, confidence and ease (i.e., dogs, cats, birds, reptiles, etc.). ability to regularly stand, and to reach and feel with hands and arms. ability to frequently walk, stoop, kneel, or crouch, and to lift or move up to 50 pounds. work schedule - ability and willingness to work a schedule that may include a variety of shifts, including evening, weekends and holidays, and may vary from week to week based on business needs. required capabilities: compassionate commitment to pet care - clearly, confidently and professionally presents the pet treatment recommendation as an advocate for the pet, gaining the client's agreement to proceed with the treatment best suited to the pet's current condition and long term health. communication skills - reads, writes and speaks fluent english, using appropriate grammar, style and vocabulary. correctly spells commonly used english words and medical terms. fluent in spanish in markets where local population is predominantly spanish speaking. ability to multi-task- manages multiple medical, diagnostic, service and/or administrative tasks at one time; quickly and accurately shifts attention among multiple tasks under distracting conditions without loss of accuracy or appearance of frustration. customer service skills - consistently provides clients and pets with attentive, courteous and informative service. gains and shows personal satisfaction from delivering good service, seeing pet health improve and satisfying clients. problem solving skills- quickly determines when subtle indicators of medical conditions can result in threats to pet health/longevity and questions clients to identify causes; transmits accurate and complete patient medical history and status to the veterinarian verbally and through petware. intellectual ability - accurately and consistently follows instructions delivered in an oral, written or diagram format. mathematical ability - ability to add, subtract, multiply and divide, and to compute rate, ratio and percent; ability to convert units of measurement. computer skills - comfortably and confidently uses a computer and specialized software to check clients in and out, update client and patient records, and conduct and balance daily transactions, among other things. required attitudes: integrity - firmly adheres to the values and ethics of banfield, the pet hospital®. exhibits honesty, discretion, and sound judgment. cooperativeness - willing to work with others, collaborating and compromising where necessary; promptly shares relevant information with others. initiative - shows willingness and aptitude to use own discretion in taking appropriate steps in finding solutions to problems; presents options and ideas to enhance current processes or procedures. takes on additional responsibility when both big and small tasks need to be done; seeks out the most valuable work to do during times when the hospital faces low client demand. tolerance for stress - maintains a positive "can do" outlook, rebounds quickly from frustrations and unpleasantness, maintains composure and friendly demeanor while dealing with stressful situations. flexibility - is open to changing situations and opportunities within the hospital and is willing to perform all tasks as assigned. is available and willing to work all hours required to ensure hospital functions efficiently. willing to assist other area hospitals as needed. independence - able and willing to perform tasks and duties without constant supervision. education and/or experience high school graduate or equivalent. associate or bachelor degree, veterinary technician certification or licensure or one year of related experience preferred. benefits: pt team members enjoy the following benefits: competitive salary and bonuses 401(k) retirement savings plan employee assistance program basic wellness plans for one pet 20% discount off banfield® veterinary care not covered by wellness plans 15% discount off qualifying merchandise at petsmart superstores waltham pet food rebate program 15% discount off club rates for "rapid results platinum memberships" and above at most bally total fitness clubs ft team members enjoy the following benefits in addition to the benefits listed above: medical, prescription, dental and vision insurance life insurance for team members and dependents health and dependent care flexible spending accounts short and long-term disability insurance accidental death & dismemberment (ad&d) insurance up to 21 days of paid time off per year basic wellness plans for up to three pets we are a drug-free, smoke-free, equal opportunity employer. company policy, federal and state laws forbid discrimination because of age, color, race, religion, sex, disability, sexual orientation or national origin
i don't have a problem with banfield in general. in fact i don't know much about them. i just have a problem with the term "pet nurse" when we are/should be considered veterinary technicians. the other problem that i have is that the banfield "pet nurses" do not have to have any training in veterinary technology in order to be considered a "pet nurse" although it is preferred. several years ago the veterinary technician community wanted the change the title to veterinary nurse. the ana told our association (navta) that the terminology was illegal in many states. so i was wondering why banfield can use the term "nurse" and the veterinary community as a whole cannot. seems strange to me. oh and for the record, i prefer to be called a veterinary technician.
however there are three things that technicians are not allowed to do by law period:
1. make a diagnosis or prognosis.
2. prescribe any treatment, medication, and/or appliance.
3. perform surgery.
this three things are written in every veterinary practice act throughout the us whether that state recognizes credentialed (program educated) technicians or not. granted there may be some "grey areas" as there probably are i'm sure in the nursing profession but there is no getting around that performing an abdominal surgery, an ovariohysterectomy, a canine spay is surgery. if banfield is allowing their petnurses to perform surgery...
fuzzy
this shocked me as well. and fuzzy, maybe you could point me to a vet/animal board where i could ask this? i now have concerns about when i take my cats in for care.
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[color=#483d8b]are they treated by the tech only? is this person certified at all?
[color=#483d8b]my last vet let me stay in the treatment room while he the dr. administered the shots and exam. i have no problem with a tech doing this as long as it's not someone off the street with no training.
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[color=#483d8b]i guess ajohns post scared me a bit; especially when my animals need more extensive treatment.
Specializes in ER, ICU, Infusion, peds, informatics.
this shocked me as well. and fuzzy, maybe you could point me to a vet/animal board where i could ask this? i now have concerns about when i take my cats in for care.
[color=#483d8b]are they treated by the tech only? is this person certified at all?
[color=#483d8b]my last vet let me stay in the treatment room while he the dr. administered the shots and exam. i have no problem with a tech doing this as long as it's not someone off the street with no training.
[color=#483d8b]i guess ajohns post scared me a bit; especially when my animals need more extensive treatment.
i think you'll probably have to ask your vet those questions, because it is very individual.
my vet has one assistant-- no experience that i know of, but she also has a limited role. she truely "assists." he does his own blood draws, looks under the microscope himself. she may shoot the xrays, or run some of the blood tests on the machines, i'm not sure. he will occasionally have interns -- vet or pre-vet students, that do a whole lot more.
that isn't the case in all vet clinics. i've used other vets in the past where the techs did almost all of the hands-on care, the vet did the major surgeries (techs did neuters and dentals) and saw clients in the exam rooms.
my personal experience is that the smaller clinics are likely to have more direct care by the vet, where the larger places are more likely to have the techs do more of the tasks.
All I'm saying is until you've walked in both shoes you are not able to say if they are or are not a nurse. Having been both, I would say they are and in someways are better than some of the nurses I've seen out in practice today. They never refer to themselves as a NURSE, they refer to themselves as a PET NURSE. BIG difference. And that is exactally what they are, they are nurses and do the job of a nurse but for/to an animal instead of a human.
They think both independently, and dependent of the doctor. They advocate for the best of the patient, a patient who can't even talk, be it to the doctor or to the parent of the patient. They educate, they evaluate and assess, they lay out plans based on the medical needs/diagnosis of the client. Am I missing something here, how is what they do not being a nurse? This is also just a smallll amount of what they do that a RN doesn't. If you think you can find something that you do as a RN that a PN can't/doesn't do with reference to animals, please by all means be my guest.
I don't dispute that a vet tech performs many of the functions of a nurse on his/her animal patients. My argument is that, by tradition and law, a nurse is someone who cares for people. Like others who've posted here, I suppose I am more offended by non-nurses in human healthcare calling themselves nurses than by so-called "pet nurses" or veternary nurses. I've never had a problem calling a vet "doctor," so I can see some logic in calling those who work with them a nurse.
Still, it seems to me that a nurseryman (or woman) who performs many of the same functions on plants shouldn't be called a plant nurse. A local mechaninc advertises himself as a "car medic." Even has a red cross on his sign. It seems cute, and no one confuses him for a real medic. But when I was a carpenter, I was proud enough of what I did that it never occured to me to call myself a house doctor or house nurse. Surely no one in healthcare of any form will dispute that our profession ought not be applied to inanimate objects (though I suppose some may argue that it does no harm, since people obviously know the difference and there is no intent to pass oneself off as qualified to treat people.)
Again, I was prepared at the start of this thread to say sure, there can be veternary nurses just as there are DVMs. But now I'm told that vet techs aren't just nurses, but better than nurses. In human healthcare, a rad tech requires a minimum of 18mos. to 2 yrs. training. Lab tech at least a 2yr degree. CRNA is a masters degree in nursing with two years critical care experience post BSN. RN at least two years. But a vet tech is able to attain these levels of expertise in a 2yr or 4yr program. By golly, that's impressive. Even so, I resent the implication in another post that we send patients to radiology, have phlebotomists draw blood and send it to labs because we're too lazy or stupid to do it ourselves. In my prior position, I spent a lot of time taking patients to tests, and I do firmly believe I could learn to shoot x-rays, or CTs, or MRI's. During my one semster of Micro, I actually toyed with the idea of switching to lab tech or medical technologist. And while I truly appreciate the time phlebotomists save me, the blood draws they can't get, I have to get.
I have little doubt that experience as a vet tech could be a useful background to enter nursing--assuming one could adapt to our more limited scope of practice. As a matter of fact, I use lessons I learned as a carpenter every day. (Mostly having to do with customer service, since I was self-employed--but I do apply the carpenter's adage "measure twice, cut once" from time to time.) All sorts of life experience have value in nursing. But, again, it seems arrogant to me to suppose I don't know much about the "gentle art of nursing" because I happen to be a lowly nurse.
Still, maybe it doesn't really matter, that much. Call yourselves nurses. Call yourselves prima ballarinas, for all I care. As I recall, in a thread on titles in the male nursing forum, I was persuaded to adopt the title "Supreme Commander." So I'll just stick with that.
Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.
Fuzzy,
To answer your questions, yes you are absolutly right, we are not allowed to do that, just like a PA is not allowed to lead the surgery, yet they can go down and harvest the saphenous vein by themselves, well isn't that surgery? Its a very very fine line, when does assisting as the PA is doing, become different from leading
The doctor is still in the room, and he makes the cut, I'm on one side of the table, hes on the other. The line between assisting and doing is very thin. And no, I was not joking when I said, I did the surgery, now granted they were my dogs that I did it on, but I found the horns with the spay hook, I pulled loose the ovarian ligament, and ligated/transfixated them, same with the Cervix. I then sowed up the dog. The doctor is there, hes still in charge, so am I leading or am I the assistant. Tough line to delineate between. We did as techs get to do a cat neuter here and there, and no they were not our animals, but with the vet right there I'm working on his authority and with his guidance. We often had Vet students, first year students, never performed surgery in their life, yet they were allowed to perform surgery on the animals, how is that any different? They don't have DVM, or VMD behind their name. Often they were summer interns with not even a class under their belt. Its no different with teeth cleaning to us its a simple procedure but taking out a baby tooth, that is technically surgery, yet most Vet Techs are more than capable of doing that with a little bit of teaching.
Every vet is different this vet just happened to have been a Tech in the past and was willing to teach those who showed an ability and desire. He knew exactally the training we had, and the knowledge we already had with our degrees. I know this might sound morbid, but on those animals that had passed away by either natural means or Euthanasia we practiced on with the owners consent. We learned how to do cutdowns, tooth extractions, suturing, etc. Learned a great deal about anatomy, etc from doing these things.
Every banfield is different and every doctor is different. I would never take my animal there but that is for different reasons all together. Not because I'm worried about the tech doing it. I am not sorry for anything that I did or learned while working there, it has only enhanced greatly my understanding and appreciation of what I do now and what path I wish to pursue in the future.
Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.
Critter Lover,
to answer your questions, any animal board that you go to will say that no its against the law and if you know of a place thats diong it, please let them know. But the burden of proof is great. How can you prove that it was going on, how can you prove it was on this pet or that pet, etc. Do you have video evidence, do you have a affidavit? Do you have the Vet Tech who is willing to state in a legally binding document that they did it.
I have never seen a Tech do the diagnosis, or prescribe medication, I know it happens but it happens as well in nursing. Now granted we have standing orders well vets can do the same thing. I did have a standing order for pets who were having allergic rxns (IV Catheter, Benedryl IM, and dpending on how bad the pet was Dexamethasone IV) to any vaccine while the vet was away on lunch or out of the office, etc. We have the same sort of thing as RN's with certain things. Now the doctor is the one who decides when this is done and if you have the authority to do that. It took me many years to get to the point they would trust me with that stuff. Not all vet places are like that, not all Banfields are like that. Don't be worried about your animals safety a tech would never do anything to hurt an animal intentionally.
As for taking techs off the street with no training, it happens, how do you think I got involved. I didn't go to school first, I went to school AFTER I started. I had every intention of being a DVM. Sure they do hire folks off the streeth, but just like new nurses in their first semester they are shown, then you have to do. You can only have so much training in how to give a shot or take blood before you have to just finally "take a stab" at it. Same with reading microscope slides. I know when something is abnormal and when something is normal. I may not know all the time what the abnormal is, but I know enough to go get the VET. That came with YEARS and YEARS of working and experience and seeing stuff over and over and over and anytime something odd came up, me being show the "odd" and then being told what it was.
All I'm saying is until you've walked in both shoes you are not able to say if they are or are not a nurse. Having been both, I would say they are and in someways are better than some of the nurses I've seen out in practice today. They never refer to themselves as a NURSE, they refer to themselves as a PET NURSE. BIG difference. And that is exactally what they are, they are nurses and do the job of a nurse but for/to an animal instead of a human.
They think both independently, and dependent of the doctor. They advocate for the best of the patient, a patient who can't even talk, be it to the doctor or to the parent of the patient. They educate, they evaluate and assess, they lay out plans based on the medical needs/diagnosis of the client. Am I missing something here, how is what they do not being a nurse? This is also just a smallll amount of what they do that a RN doesn't. If you think you can find something that you do as a RN that a PN can't/doesn't do with reference to animals, please by all means be my guest.
The reason why human health care has become more and more specialized is to allow certain professionals to attain mastery over select subjects matter. This doesn't mean that an RN can't sit down at a microscope and come up with a CBC differential, read an ECG, manage a vent, put in lines etc... it means that in this country (and most countries) human life is valued at a premium, animals in general are not. So a vet tech can have a wide range of responsibilities and if a mistake is made that leads to an incorrect diagnosis on an animal, the consequences are not nearly as severe as it would be for a nurse. You may not personally agree that a human life is worth more than that of an animal's, but collectively as a society this is a fact, because of this fact the weight of responsiblity on an RN far surpasses any that a vet tech might assume. Doesn't make the vet tech any less educated or intelligent, just means that the roles are not as equitable as some might want to assume.
Specializes in Pulmonology/Critical Care, Internal Med.
SKM1,
I would agree with you, you have many valid points. I kill someones dog, I hate to say ok, but ok. There is still food on the table, and life goes on I kill someones husband or wife, and I potentially take away that family's means of existence/sustenance. In that regard yes humans in healthcare have more responsibility. However as I like animals more than most people, I view all life as sacred. My responsibility to the puppy or kitten is just as important to me as it is to my human patients. I treat them the exact same.
As for mastery over one subject I believe that to be one of the great downfalls of human medicine. With the focus so much on one area, the practitioner looses a lot of their ability to 'look outside the box". How many times have you seen a dermatologist diagnose a Venous Stasis Ulcer as some form of Dermatitis. Or a Urologist diagnose a tubal pregnancy as a Kidney Infection. I have, I think a lot of these problems are due to the fact we have so much focus on one area that alot of other areas get missed. This is one thing i like about Nursing and I liked about Vet Med. You have to look at the whole body and how it effects everything else, not just the one focused area. Yeah we can focus on Anesthesia, or Cardiac, but I would hope that you woudln't loose your ability as so many do to look outside the box.
To answer your questions, yes you are absolutly right, we are not allowed to do that, just like a PA is not allowed to lead the surgery, yet they can go down and harvest the saphenous vein by themselves, well isn't that surgery? Its a very very fine line, when does assisting as the PA is doing, become different from leading
The doctor is still in the room, and he makes the cut, I'm on one side of the table, hes on the other. The line between assisting and doing is very thin. And no, I was not joking when I said, I did the surgery, now granted they were my dogs that I did it on, but I found the horns with the spay hook, I pulled loose the ovarian ligament, and ligated/transfixated them, same with the Cervix. I then sowed up the dog. The doctor is there, hes still in charge, so am I leading or am I the assistant. Tough line to delineate between. We did as techs get to do a cat neuter here and there, and no they were not our animals, but with the vet right there I'm working on his authority and with his guidance. We often had Vet students, first year students, never performed surgery in their life, yet they were allowed to perform surgery on the animals, how is that any different? They don't have DVM, or VMD behind their name. Often they were summer interns with not even a class under their belt. Its no different with teeth cleaning to us its a simple procedure but taking out a baby tooth, that is technically surgery, yet most Vet Techs are more than capable of doing that with a little bit of teaching.
Every vet is different this vet just happened to have been a Tech in the past and was willing to teach those who showed an ability and desire. He knew exactally the training we had, and the knowledge we already had with our degrees. I know this might sound morbid, but on those animals that had passed away by either natural means or Euthanasia we practiced on with the owners consent. We learned how to do cutdowns, tooth extractions, suturing, etc. Learned a great deal about anatomy, etc from doing these things.
Every banfield is different and every doctor is different. I would never take my animal there but that is for different reasons all together. Not because I'm worried about the tech doing it. I am not sorry for anything that I did or learned while working there, it has only enhanced greatly my understanding and appreciation of what I do now and what path I wish to pursue in the future.
be assured that that in no way shape or form will you be allowed to "play surgeon" on any human... no matter if it's your mom, pop or kid.
the line in human health care is VERY clear, as you will someday find out.
To answer your question about finding an ethical veterinarian that doesn't knowingly allow his technicians to practice outside their scope. This can sometimes seem like a daunting task. However there are more ethical veterinarians in practice than those who aren't. My best suggestion is to ask your current veterinarian. Are his technicians credentialed ie. sat and passed the state and/or national boards? This at least proves that they know the laws governing the technicians scope of practice for your state. It is good that your vet lets you stay with your pets for most of their treatments--that shows a good level of trust on both sides. Is your vet a member of a professional association such as the AVMA, AAHA, or his state association? While this doesn't necessarily mean that he is ethical, membership does make him accountable. Ask your vet directly what his technicians are allowed to do and not do in his practice. Tell him your concerns about your pets' welfare. If you are interested in learning about your state's veterinary practice act and/or your state's veterinary technician requirements go to http://www.aavsb.org. Each state has a different practice act. I'm not sure if nurses have different state practice acts or not.
Atl John,
Ah you didn't mention that the dogs that you spayed were your own, that makes the thin line alot thicker and the area greyer. Most practice acts exempt the animal owner from the DVM/VMD requirement as the animal is their own property. This is especially true in states with a large livestock lobby because of economics. If these were client dogs ie. dogs that you didn't own, you know that the roles would have been reversed. The vet would have been doing the actual surgery not just making the incision and you would have been monitoring the anesthesia and performing other non-sterile technician duties. Yes animals are property, however there is a movement going on now to drop the owner designation to guardian in many areas. This will give animals many more "rights". This means that the rules will probably change especially in the area of malpractice. The technican roles will become more defined as it is now in nursing from what I have read. While many people may think that a "dog is a dog" or a "bull is a bull" and yes it is sad that they may die due to a veterinarian's or a technician's ineptness, it is no big deal as life goes on. It isn't necessarily true that an animal doesn't provide the family with sustenance or a living. What if the dog that died happens to be a guide dog that belongs to the family wage earner or the bull happens to be the herd sire on the family ranch? Both of those deaths will adversely affect the lives of those people. Yes I have heard all the arguments about on the job training vs schooling. The on the job training that I received taught me the "hows", more importantly the schooling taught me the "whys" and how things work together. I also learned what can happen when things go wrong without exeriencing it. Sure Atl John could learn "nursing on the job" but it wouldn't make him as good of a nurse now would it?
To those nurses who feel that since technicians do alot of different things that we are somehow superior,
We're not. I admire nurses. I think that you have a very difficult job that you do well. Most nurses that I have been involved with are very knowledgable, well-trained and compassionate professionals. The differences between a veterinary technician and a nurse is that we have different job descriptions. Our focus is the same as far as advocating for our patients is concerned. We just do it differently. Apples and oranges as to our job duties. There are days that I wish that I didn't have to know so little about so much. Nurses are fortunate they get to learn everything about one thing and that's the art and science of nursing.
Thanks A Berry Girl. This is why I'm defensive about my job title just like many nurses. Granted having a diploma and passing the state and national boards dosn't necessarily make one a good veterinary technician but it does PROVE that they have enough general knowledge to hopefully do the job safely without risking the life of the patient. Does this sound familar to you nurses? People who are trained on the job without any formal education are not bad, in fact they are an important part of the team, BUT they are not veterinary technicians either but veterinary assistants. There are states now that are writing veterinary technician terminalogy into their practice acts to protect the title which is similar to what the nursing industry had done many years ago.
What bother's me is that a large corparation gets away from this by hiring people with little or no education and calling them a "nurse". The term nurse to me has always ment that the person has attended nursing school and has learned some skills before going out into the real world instead of "practicing on the patients" in a real life setting. To me this is deceiving the public. I'm sure that their name tags don't say "PetNurse In Training" or "Student PetNurse" but just "PetNurse". From reading other threads, I thought that the response would be different as nurses always seemed to be very protective of their nurse title. But again that was 2002-03. Times change.
Fuzzy, CVT who will always be a veterinary technician.
Don't you have a BB for vet techs where you could address this with other techs? If you have no interest in ever being a nurse for the human species, why do you post here? Wouldn't you get more appropriate direction from you colleagues?
I personally hated the title of Pet Nurse while working there, I wish we could have been Vet Techs, not to mention the stupid scrubs with the little puppy dogs, and kittens and children that were playing on them that we had to wear. We really hated the term nurse as we were able to do so much more than an RN could even dream of. I find it very confusing that what these folks who are PN's do is somehow demeaning the term, the actions, etc of a Nurse (RN, LPN, etc). I would think it would be just the opposite.
The job of the PN is the same as a RN and even to a further extent than an RN, you have no ability to judge if they are AIDES or NURSES....you havn't been on both sides of the fence. I have. We are the advocates for our clients, we are the educators to the parents of the pet. We are the ones who have to know about pharmacology, and disease processes, etc, the list goes on. So far I have yet to find anything in my Nursing courses that is as hard as what I had to learn to be a PN at my hospital.
I would honestly take a Vet tech putting in an IV line over a RN any day. You try putting a 20g into a 2lb Chihuahua, or hell into a 130lb Akita who you have only shot to do it, before he goes ape and bites the H out of you. Not to mention I can't remember a single time that we ever had a nosocomial infection from any surgery, it is something a lot of us can't say the same for.
Vet Tech's deserve your respect, you want to learn how to be a better nurse, try being a Vet Tech. You'll learn how to act towards your patient, and most importanly the gentle art of nursing. If you don't you'll get yourself hurt, how many of us can say the same with Human Nursing. If they wish to call themselves PN's let them. They aren't hurting you and those who later on decide to become RN's and drop the Pet in their title, will only help further the good name of "Nurse".
Sigh. This is a site for nurses, not vet techs. We need no lectures from you about our practice. It's totally inappropriate to come to a nursing website as a non-nurse and start attacking people here.
Specializes in Nursing Ed, Ob/GYN, AD, LTC, Rehab.
Fuzzy,
To answer your questions, yes you are absolutly right, we are not allowed to do that, just like a PA is not allowed to lead the surgery, yet they can go down and harvest the saphenous vein by themselves, well isn't that surgery? Its a very very fine line, when does assisting as the PA is doing, become different from leading
The doctor is still in the room, and he makes the cut, I'm on one side of the table, hes on the other. The line between assisting and doing is very thin. And no, I was not joking when I said, I did the surgery, now granted they were my dogs that I did it on, but I found the horns with the spay hook, I pulled loose the ovarian ligament, and ligated/transfixated them, same with the Cervix. I then sowed up the dog. The doctor is there, hes still in charge, so am I leading or am I the assistant. Tough line to delineate between. We did as techs get to do a cat neuter here and there, and no they were not our animals, but with the vet right there I'm working on his authority and with his guidance. We often had Vet students, first year students, never performed surgery in their life, yet they were allowed to perform surgery on the animals, how is that any different? They don't have DVM, or VMD behind their name. Often they were summer interns with not even a class under their belt. Its no different with teeth cleaning to us its a simple procedure but taking out a baby tooth, that is technically surgery, yet most Vet Techs are more than capable of doing that with a little bit of teaching.
Every vet is different this vet just happened to have been a Tech in the past and was willing to teach those who showed an ability and desire. He knew exactally the training we had, and the knowledge we already had with our degrees. I know this might sound morbid, but on those animals that had passed away by either natural means or Euthanasia we practiced on with the owners consent. We learned how to do cutdowns, tooth extractions, suturing, etc. Learned a great deal about anatomy, etc from doing these things.
Every banfield is different and every doctor is different. I would never take my animal there but that is for different reasons all together. Not because I'm worried about the tech doing it. I am not sorry for anything that I did or learned while working there, it has only enhanced greatly my understanding and appreciation of what I do now and what path I wish to pursue in the future.
And this quote shows exactly the difference between a vet tech and a nurse, thanks for making a great point of why the term nurse is and should remain protected
Cattitude
696 Posts
this shocked me as well. and fuzzy, maybe you could point me to a vet/animal board where i could ask this? i now have concerns about when i take my cats in for care.
[color=#483d8b]
[color=#483d8b]are they treated by the tech only? is this person certified at all?
[color=#483d8b]my last vet let me stay in the treatment room while he the dr. administered the shots and exam. i have no problem with a tech doing this as long as it's not someone off the street with no training.
[color=#483d8b]
[color=#483d8b]i guess ajohns post scared me a bit; especially when my animals need more extensive treatment.
[color=#483d8b]
[color=#483d8b]
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