overheard a CNA badly verbally abusing an elderly patient

Nascar nurse, ASN, RN · May 31, 2009

You can always report this to the state BON, as CNAs are just as accountable as nurses. And if the facility allows the CNA to continue in this fashion, I'd report it to your state's senior and disabled services agency........anonymously, of course.........who knows what else is going on when the powers that be are looking the other way?

I completely agree with this. I have worked in LTC for 20+ years. You can easily report this to the department of health (the numbers should be listed on the wall somewhere in your facility). You can report this without giving your name, but giving them all the facts. Keep a copy of any written witness statement that you collect and make sure to tell the dept of health that these exist and they should ask to see when they come in the door.

Abuse of the elderly is inexcusable and needs to be followed thru on.

tykedelight · May 31, 2009

I have been a CNA for several years. One thing that I have learned when dealing with witnessing verbal abuse is that it is always best to put a stop to it at the time that it is occurring. Some people do not realize just how nasty they sound until it is pointed out to them; sometimes it takes redirecting the persons approach before they understand just how wrong they were. You are the charge nurse therefore it is in your power to have the CNA's as a group get together and discuss some of the behaviors amonst each other that they would like to see improve. Set an example of how to handle tough situations in a positive way.

Itshamrtym · May 31, 2009

This incident really scares me to death.... What else has this person done to our poor inocent elderly.. This burns me up!!!!!!! When it comes to the elderly, children and animals being abused makes my blood boil. SOMEONE needs to make sure that this person resigns themselves from this line of work STAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My heart goes out to the OP... I hope that it all works out for you. Keep us posted.

Moogie · May 31, 2009

WOW, you are in a tough spot.
My experience was sort of like yours. I witnessed sexual abuse. I was with the nurse. This particular nurse asked me to help her with a procedure. She did not know how to insert a foley cath. So me being the nicey nurse and always willing to help my peers decided to help her. Mind you, we work the night shift. So I took time out of my busy schedule to help her. It was about 4 am when she decided to do this procedure. I did have a witness with me. A cna asked if we needed some assistance. I said yes. As we positioned the elderly lady, I draped her of course. This nurse who asked me to help her was not only holding the light near her private area, she was also stroking her privy parts up and down as though she was stroking a kitty cat, no joke. I did not get to put that foley in because I could not believe what I say. The cna who was holding her leg apart looked at me and turned her head. To make this long story short. I got fired! I got fired for not reporting the incident STAT! I should have did what my first mind told me to do. Stop and call the DON. NO, I went back to my unit and finished up my work, because I was behind schedule helping her. We worked 12 hour shifts at the place. I was also picking up an extra shift helping out. And I got fired! Always follow your first mind. Even if it put you off schedule a little bit.
The good thing about the incident. I can go back to the facility to work. The termination is for a year. I have 4 months left. by the way we did have to make statements on paper of the events that took place. And the cna did too. I do not know what else happened to that nurse. I just don't ever want to see her again!

Chanta2, I know the economy is tough right now but why would you WANT to go back to that facility? There's just something that sounds strange about the way you were treated. Unless your facility's policy was to notify the DON immediately, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, I can't understand why you were terminated. I mean, some DON's (certainly not all but some!) would be furious about a 4 AM call for a reason other than an impaired worker, serious resident injury or death. (I am making an assumption here that you reported the incident immediately after your shift was over and the DON came on for duty that day. Or was it longer than that before you made your report?)

Frankly, I'd want to know what happened to the nurse who did this to the resident. Was she disciplined appropriately? Is she still at the facility? Was the incident investigated thoroughly? If she's still there, for whatever reason, you may want to think carefully before you go back.

Moogie · May 31, 2009

I did report it immediately, I called another Nurse from another floor and exspressed my concern, we called the ADON at home, and she said to send the CNA home immediately, and write down what happened, this CNA from what I understand has been reported before by other Nurses for the same thing,, it was night shift, and the Cna was called in the next day along with the other witness that heard her, I understand,, they told this CNA she only had 3 days off, and it bothers me because this is patient abuse, and I immediately reported it, I have a license to protect,, what bothers me the most is: Other Nurses told me the facility doesn't do much, and actually listen to CNA's over Nurses. I am very concerned about this. She has deliberately shut lights off on me while I am passing meds, and also I put that in writing, prior to the verbal abuse I heard , the week before she had to be written up, nothing was done then either. I need answers, I will not let one of my CNA's abuse one of my elderly patients, and yet the facility is not doing anything. I always thought, you abuse a patient ,, you get fired. As I said this is not her first write up for this. She had the patient crying all night, and I would like to know what to do. Thanks

You're saying that this particular CNA has been written up previously for things she has done. Has she been written up only once or more than once? Many facilities follow a protocol of discipline that goes from verbal warning to written warning to suspension to termination. MAYBE your facility is simply following protocol and with the next reported incident, regardless of severity, the CNA will be fired.

And maybe there is something else going on. There are, unfortunately, DONs and nurse managers who have favorites on staff and will be inconsistent in granting privileges and meting out discipline because of that favoritism. It is frustrating to work in a system in which mediocracy and incompetence are tolerated or even rewarded and good people who do the right thing get punished. I wish we could all just focus on providing excellent patient/resident/client care and not have to worry about petty politics. If that's the case with your facility, start looking for a facility in which your input will be respected, abuse will not be tolerated, and you can give the best care possible.

You are in my prayers. This is a tough situation to go through.

Chanta2 · May 31, 2009

I reported the incident the same day but later on when I was at work that evening. I had to go home and rest. When I woke up and rested I realized that stuff did happen. I was so tired that night that stuff happened I just wanted to go home and get some sleep. The shift was 6pm-6am. I called my DON at 10 pm.that same night.It had not even been 24 hours yet. I wanted the cna to back me up. I knew that was a serious accusation to be putting on someone. I wanted to be sure I was correct in my actions. I was told I did not need a witness, for this facility has a zero tolorance policy. I was told I put the resident at risk for not reporting it immediately. Because the same nurse was working that night. I told the DON I did not want to mess up somebody livelihood if I did not have a witness. None of my reasoning helped in the situation. Yes I was heartbroken that I was fired. But I should have reported it at that minute. You know come to think of it, when I did give her a call do you think she got out of her bed to deal with it? No. She told me she worked too and needed her rest. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I don't want to work for that place again. I was dogged out. She can get her rest, I went home to sleep knowing I had to pull a 12 hour shift. And because I chose my rest over reporting it. I would have had to stay over and everything. I was thinking about getting my kids to school and my family first. I did not want to stay over that particular morning.

Thanks for pointing that out to me Moogie.

Nascar nurse, ASN, RN · Jun 1, 2009

I reported the incident the same day but later on when I was at work that evening. I had to go home and rest. When I woke up and rested I realized that stuff did happen. I was so tired that night that stuff happened I just wanted to go home and get some sleep. The shift was 6pm-6am.
I went home to sleep knowing I had to pull a 12 hour shift. And because I chose my rest over reporting it. I would have had to stay over and everything. I was thinking about getting my kids to school and my family first. I did not want to stay over that particular morning.
Thanks for pointing that out to me Moogie.

Sorry, but this scares me! Every single person in health care has an immediate obligation to report abuse and immediate obligation to stop the abuse. It is not OK to go home and rest before reporting. This is the reason there are supervisors or charge nurses for each shift. I understand concerns about messing with someones lively hood. In my facility, the accused is immediately put on suspension until an investigation can be done. The outcome will then determine their future.

Sorry if my reply seems harsh, but what if that resident was someone YOU loved.

Nascar nurse, ASN, RN · Jun 1, 2009

Now that I have re-read parts of the thread, I am confused because in previous posts you make it sound as if you did immediately report??

OregonGal · Jun 1, 2009

As the nurse, the CNA reports to you. Send her home!!! She is NOT SAFE!!! Report to Board of Nursing NOW!!!

butterflykisses11 · Jun 1, 2009

I agree that you should not be the one to leave. If they are allowed to run off all of the good ones, who will be an advocate for the patients. Did you and the other nurses that are having problems with this particular CNA go to the highest level of administration at your facility? administrator, board members, ect...You need to ban together on this one, there are powers in numbers. Stand up for your morals and values and don't waive them for any one. Most of all, stand up for your patients rights. Good luck!!!

Moogie · Jun 1, 2009

Now that I have re-read parts of the thread, I am confused because in previous posts you make it sound as if you did immediately report??

What's confusing is that there are two rather similar incidents, both associated with abuse, that are being discussed on this thread. The OP was Cyndi_1985, who reported verbal abuse immediately to her ADON and is frustrated because her facility has a reputation for not dealing appropriately with CNAs who have done something wrong. She reported the incident right away to her ADON and was told to send the CNA home immediately. The problem was that the CNA apparently was only suspended, not fired, and has a history not only of verbal abuse, but also of other actions that have put residents at harm.

The second poster to discuss abuse was Chanta2, who witnessed possible sexual abuse and was terminated because she did not report the incident to her DON as soon as it occurred. She posted that she did not report the abuse to the DON until 10 PM that evening (the incident occurred at 4 AM.) She stated that her termination was only "good" for a year and that as soon as she was eligible for rehire she was planning to return to the facility. Something doesn't seem right about that---I can understand someone being written up or even suspended for waiting to report abuse but termination? She did report the abuse (albeit 18 hours after it happened.) I don't know; it just sounds rather harsh to me.

I agree with other posters that abuse of a vulnerable adult is heinous and should be reported ASAP to a shift manager, the DON, the social worker, ombudsman or the local law enforcement agency. No one among us would want anything like this to happen to someone we loved. On the other hand, how many nurses wait days or even weeks before reporting abuse? How many look away, never report anything and pretend the abuse never happened? How many nurses are reluctant to report abuse because they fear the alleged perpetrators will not be appropriately disciplined or that they themselves will end up being punished? It's not right but unfortunately, sometimes it's reality.

Cyndi_1985 · Jun 10, 2009

Hi, This is cyndi_1985. I am extremely upset. I need some professonal advice ASAP. As most of you have read I posted a concern about a CNA that verbally abused a patient , I reported the incident as soon as it happened. There was another witness who also verifed what happened. Last friday I went to work,, this CNA was never reprimanded, and I wrote a 2 page write up on her, as the Nurse in Charge. On Friday, she was very defiant towards me, she refused to put a resident to bed who had fallen asleep in the day room, {he had just returned from the state hospital, was total care, had to be T&R Q 2 hours, incontinent} I asked the Cna to please put him to bed. She said "NO, he is sleeping in that chair" I asked her 3 times, and she still refused, {she was the only CNA on my shift all night to 20 residents} so, I am not really sure what she did to me, but I was off the week end, and got a call from my DON Monday, she said she wanted me to come in to speak with her at 1:00 pm,, I told her I was going to call her anyway due to this Cna's behavior on Friday night, she asked what the CNA had done, so I told her, it was not just not putting the resident to bed, it was being very defiant to me the whole night, {as though she had me for reporting the abuse, and not being repremanded} she had another CNA from the 2nd floor constantly coming down to our floor all night, and they were making snood comments to me, going outside to smoke, etc,, infact I left there in tears, knowing the facility had actually given them the okay to over rule me as the Nurse in Charge,, anyway, when I went in to speak to the DON, and the ADON, they told me I was fired. I was dumbfounded, I had done nothing wrong, I had been professional, and they told me they were firing me becasue the residents were not getting their 8pm medications from me until midnight. I told them that was not true at all, and that they were finished being medicated at approximately 9:00 pm every night, {they also make you START YOUR 8PM MEDS THERE AT 6PM}I in no way ever gave residents 8pm meds at 12 midnight, and they said the residents had complimed that their meds were not given to them until then,,,, this is a down rright lie. There is no resident in that facility that even has any sense of time, and as I said the meds were always given by 9:00pm. The 2 Cna's on Friday night, definately had it in for me, and I don't know what they could have made up to get me fired, I am at wits end, supporting 23 children, no job now because I reported abuse, and I don't know what to do. My License was on the line if I would not have reported it. From what I understand 2 years ago {I was not employed there then} a CNA took nude cell phone pictures of a resident in the shower, circulated them on the internet,, was reported and never fired either,, until someone from the outside called State, they came in investgated then the Cna was fired. Also, the facility does not make Nurses keep their CPR up to date, I was the only Nurse on nights that had an updated CPR. I know I am going to have to report this, but then will I not be able to get a job anywhere? Now, I have to try to find a job at least 40 miles from where I live, because this is a small town, and there are no jobs here, I called yesterday to every nearby place I could, and no one in this town is hiring. I am ready to give up Nursing, I am severely depressed because I only was looking out for the residents, and I am the one that was fired. This is hard for me to even write. If anyone wants to know the name of the place I am not ashamed to give it. I have been a Nurse for 30 years and have NEVER ran into this. I have never been fired from a job,, I am so upset. What are they telling this CNA? That it was okay to abuse a resident, and over ride a Charge Nurse? Do Cna's get to boss Nurses? I always worked in New York,, this is a very laid back town in Southern Indiana, I am scared to even go to work as a Nurse around here. The facility from what I understand {as I said has been investigated before} Please if anyone has any info let me know. I have been crying, and actually physically ill for doing my job, and getting fired over it. It is insane, and not legal. They lied, I was a good Nurse there. Cyndi Thank you