I wanted to ask how all of you OR nurses are with students. Out of curiousity, I am wondering if my experience is standard or isolated...
My clinical rotations were in the OR this week (3rd year BSN program), and what I had hoped would be educational turned out to be just short of a major drag. The scrub/circ nurses acknowledged that I was there...then that was it. I did ask some questions but didn't feel they were very welcome. I understand they have a job to do, and student's questions are probably last on the list, but if they have time to sit down for a few and read a magazine, you'd think they might have done a little teaching....or even make eye contact.
What really burned me, is after two days of this, the same group of nurses go into the break room complaining about how desperate they are for OR nurses. I guess what I don't understand, is if they felt so strongly about needing more OR nurses you'd think they would *try* to make it a positive experience for a student nurse anticipating the field.
So is this pretty standard? How do you personally treat students in the OR?
Today I had a great time with the anesthesiologist and the surgeon who was doing an aortic valve replacement...I learned far more from them and felt more welcome and encouraged by them than any of the nursing staff.
I will be interested in reading any feedback on this, because I want to know if this is the norm.
I'm sure if someone explained to the student who witnessed your refusal, what was going on in the room (too many people, tough case) that student must have understood the reasoning behind the refusal. I know I would've as a student.
"Don't blame the OR, blame your instructors for overloading!"
One student per week in the OR here.
And as the previous poster said, it only seconds to explain a situation to a student, who would understand. We aren't in there to try to get in the way or cause problems, or take away from the patient...it is just how it is perceived apparently (in some situations/from some OR staff).
I think Marie's point was that while it's great to have interested students, they are NOT the priority during surgery, the patient is. We have gotten some excellent students in the OR, and we've gotten those who just wanted a easy day of clinical. They were disruptive and rude and managed to contaminate the table within 10 minutes of being in the room. The students have to realize that they are a guest in the department and that the OR is a different beast than the floors. If your patient is hemorraging, you may not have time to answer a question right then. Doesn't mean you don't want the student in there. Also, there is something to the fact that the sense of humor of OR people can seem crass or uncaring to those who aren't there all the time. It's a coping mechanism and it's never done in front of an awake patient.(at least not at my hospital) I love students and I love encouraging people to come to the OR- but students have to keep an open mind, and be mature enough to realize that the OR staff is focused on the surgery and the patient.
My OR rotation (as well as all my classmate's) were all terrific. The surgeon was great, the circulating nurse was fantastic (and amazing!), as was the anesthesiologist...not a word from the scrub nurse...he was busy tho. The PACU nurses were great and everyone welcomed me and all my questions.
They explained everything being done, why it was done, who was responsible for it. The anesthesiologist talked to me through the entire surgery, told me which drugs he was using and why, followed me to the PACU to make sure I had all the information needed/required for the paper I had to write. The surgeon even came back and said, "OH YEAH, A STUDENT, lets dissect this tumor for her before we send it to path".
Seriously, every nurse I met from admit to d/c was terrific. Sorry you haven't had as nice of experience as I did.
Also, there is something to the fact that the sense of humor of OR people can seem crass or uncaring to those who aren't there all the time. It's a coping mechanism and it's never done in front of an awake patient.(at least not at my hospital) I love students and I love encouraging people to come to the OR- but students have to keep an open mind, and be mature enough to realize that the OR staff is focused on the surgery and the patient.
Doesn't mean patients who are not awake are not aware of the "OR humor" being used in the room. Remember anesthesia awareness!!
I think Marie's point was that while it's great to have interested students, they are NOT the priority during surgery, the patient is. We have gotten some excellent students in the OR, and we've gotten those who just wanted a easy day of clinical. They were disruptive and rude and managed to contaminate the table within 10 minutes of being in the room. The students have to realize that they are a guest in the department and that the OR is a different beast than the floors. If your patient is hemorraging, you may not have time to answer a question right then. Doesn't mean you don't want the student in there.
I would hope that everyone could agree that students should be courteous and polite and follow directions. At the same time staff nurses should be polite too. It's doesn't take more than 2 seconds to say "Sorry, I can't answer any questions right now I need to focus" and I'm sure a student could understand that. Maybe they could even say something about that possibly happening before the case starts if the student is already there.
Very nice surgeon doing an abdominoplasty. He was explaining to the student (not scrubbed) about the muscles showing and says "Look right here, this feels.. " Student reaches her bare hand out to FEEL! After the reprep, redrape, antibiotic irrigation, and incident report, I did find the time to comfort the crying student and assured her was NOT her fault. I was the circulator and should have been watching her closer. (I had explained sterile fields to her, but the attention of the surgeon, and learning experience seemed to override my lecture.) I felt bad letting this happen to her, she was devestated! I still like having students in my room, and you better believe I give a very "serious" lecture on how far away to stay AWAY from anything sterile!
I would hope that everyone could agree that students should be courteous and polite and follow directions. At the same time staff nurses should be polite too. It's doesn't take more than 2 seconds to say "Sorry, I can't answer any questions right now I need to focus" and I'm sure a student could understand that. Maybe they could even say something about that possibly happening before the case starts if the student is already there.
You would think that a student would understand that questions cannot always be answered right away, but there are some students that actually get upset anyway, even if the circulator has made a point to tell them. I think a good way to avoid situations like that is to not put students in a case that's unstable. Granted, any case can turn bad but I'm not sure students should go into a AAA or a TJ.(possibility of contamination) One of my classmates(I'm in nursing school right now and I work as an OR tech) came to post-conference after observing in a case that went badly(carotid) Despite the fact that she had been told that things were in a bad way, she still expected someone to hold her hand and answer all her questions. When I was a tech student and doing my clinicals, we were taught from the outset to always remember that the surgery was of the utmost importance and to not make a nuisance of ourselves with badly timed question. Basically, we were taught not to speak unless spoken to. While I think that's a little harsh, I do think that nursing instructors should make it a point to tell students beforehand of the expected behavior. Most don't- many have no clue about the OR and are all too happy to drop the student off and forget about them for the day.:uhoh21:
Doesn't mean patients who are not awake are not aware of the "OR humor" being used in the room. Remember anesthesia awareness!!
Hate to break it to you but there is some debate whether or not anesthesia awareness really exists...Some anesthesiologists think there is something to it- others just think it's yet another way for litigious people to make more cash. We don't make fun of patients just to clarify. Most of it is dirty jokes and teasing among staff and it's not done when things are going badly.
While I think that's a little harsh, I do think that nursing instructors should make it a point to tell students beforehand of the expected behavior. Most don't- many have no clue about the OR and are all too happy to drop the student off and forget about them for the day.:uhoh21:
LadyT618, MSN, APRN, NP
659 Posts
I'm sure if someone explained to the student who witnessed your refusal, what was going on in the room (too many people, tough case) that student must have understood the reasoning behind the refusal. I know I would've as a student.