Modesty Issues - page 4
Looking for words of wisdom from those who are more experienced with prepping a pt for surgery or catheterizing adult male pts with modesty issues. It has only happened a few times in the past year... Read More
Mar 25, '10What does any of this have to do with working in the OR? Go find the patient complaint forum for the bit.. sessions.
Mar 25, '10I was simply making reference to the topic concerning pt modesty in general....."What do you do or say to ease anxiety during the procedure?"These tips GO A LONG WAY in making just about ANY patient feel more comfortable...GEEZ
Mar 26, '10Quote from CaDadWell I can certainly tell you were traumatized lol, I get that and I want you to know if I was your husband I would have done all I could to prevent your experience! I was shocked at what you wrote.
Just to digress for a moment, it is simply outrageous how so many females have this opinion that males do not have modesty issues, or should not have modesty issues and that somehow, this is an immature thing to have. I have actually been told that BTW! I cannot explain where this comes from. I can assure you if you filed a complaint you would in all probability get a sympathetic ear. I think you should. Yours is one exception I am shocked at, the vast vast majority of the time female PT's are given their requests, we as men are simply told , there is nothing we can do, if you don't like it than go somewhere else, which by the way I have done on more than one occasion.
Like yourself, I have a high regard for Nurses, they are worked like mules, and they certainly have my respect, they just don't seem to understand we want the respect back . I just hope our posts here at least educate them on how things are on the other side of the experience.
In regards to "female pts are given their requests, we as men are simply told, there is nothing we can do, if you don't like it than go somewhere else" please keep in mind that nursing is still predominantly female. The OR I work in has all of 5 male nurses, and 3 of them work exclusively in CTOR. So your request for an all male team truly is impossible for us to comply with. Personally, I'd be more concerned with my nurse's competency than gender.
Mar 26, '10If a facility considers this issue important, it can do several things.
-- Work to balance genders on shifts.
-- Work to balance skill levels with genders on shifts.
-- Actually work to hire more male nurses. That's where the politics and economics of this issue comes into play. Of course nursing is mostly a female profession, and will probably always remain so -- but that doesn't mean the profession can't take positive, dare I say "affirmative" action to be more gender inclusive. The military is mostly male and will probably always remain so -- but it is becoming more open to women and more of them are having a positive impact in that all male culture. Same goes for other historically male professions. These changes aren't just happening, they've being made to happen through conscious efforts in include women. The same isn't true for historically female professions like nursing and elementary school teaching. There are actually fewer male elementary school teachers than there were 10, 20 years ago. And nursing is moving too slowly in an gender inclusive direction. Someday, the medical culture in nursing will recognize that a good gender balance is not just good business (economically) but also more intellectually stimulating and professionally enhancing.
The problem is that most medical facilities, although they try to accommodate when they can, don't consider this a relevant issue and are essentially satisfied with the status quo. Basically, we'll deal with things with what we've got but we're not going to do anything to improve things.
Mar 26, '10I do believe you hit the nail on the head.
I do have several nursing instructor friends who do tell me more and more males are joining the ranks, but yes it is slow but increasing .I personally think gender saturatwed professions are disappearing which is a good thing for everyone and I agree that the institutions are generally satisfied with the status quo, but I also know that complaints are increasing and that the institutions are slowly but increasingly being held accountable. YOur overview is telling and exacting though.
Mar 31, '10This seems like a stone age argument. The nurse is there to help the patient, why does it matter what gender they are? I mean really, when I have had to be catheterized, the furthest thing from my mind was thinking that the nurse was getting his/her jollies off seeing my urethra. As long as it didn't hurt, I would have accepted a monkey cathing me. When you are in a traumatic situation or entering the OR, there isn't much in the way of a choice in nurses...whoever is scheduled in that department will be doing your cath. Nurses are professionals, they provide privacy and promote dignity as much as possible regardless of gender.
Mar 31, '10Stone age,? really? It's unreal you can say that if you have read the blogs on the topic and the issues we are discussing.
Of course trauma and lifesaving are of the utmost importance, and who cares what anyone's gender is , but, and there is a big big butt here, there are egregious situations in er that just don't need to happen. None the less, We are essentially discussing what is happening elsewhere in the hospital where needless ignorance or calloused disregard of the PT's emotional health is at steak here. I repeat, your not working in garage on automobiles here but with real live people who in all probability have never been in a hospital their entire life and what happens is pretty distressing. Yea-your professionals-but your not adrogioious either, totally devoid of any curiosity, emotions or feeling so we just are not buying into that old stone age reply, " Were professionals here!" It would help if you were naked while invading our privacy, but I guess thats just realistic. One could say we have seen it all also so why not be naked in there with us? I know its stupid, but perhaps your getting the idea. It is soo much easier to be the clothed one while we have our gentiles exposed and worked on and pontificate on our childish behavior.
I respectfully, disagree with you.
Mar 31, '10To wahwahgerman -- Everyone is different. They have different values and beliefs. Everyone isn't the same as you. Do you believe these differences should be respected? Or do believe in the "one size fits all" philosophy? To assume that people who don't see modesty the way you do are living in a stone age, is arrogant. I hope you're more open to different cultures and values that that. And again, we're dragged back into the ER. Most reasonable people will accept that emergencies are different situations. And, as you say, "Nurses are professionals, they provide privacy and promote dignity as much as possible regardless of gender." Although that's true, you need to be sensitive to patient feelings, beliefs, religions, cultural backgrounds, and possible sexual abuse history. It's more complicated that the stone age vs. "modern" times.
Mar 31, '10For those who insist nurses must be of a specific gender to care for you, do you also have the same expectation of your physician/anesthesia provider/person getting your vitals at the doctor's office? If not, why the double standard?
Mar 31, '10poetnyouknowit -- I reject the way you framed your question -- and that's a major part of the problem with discussing this issue. The right questions aren't being asked. I refer you to a study -- "Preferences for female and male nurses: the role of age, gender and previous experience -- year 2000 compared with 1984" by Anna Chur-Hansen BA PhD found in Journal of Advanced Nursing, 37(2), 192-98.
You're framing gender preference for patients assuming that all contexts are equal -- that is, having your vitals taken is equal to a pelvic exam, or what the anesthesia provider does compares equally with an extremely invasive intimate urological procedure. The study I quoted, rare for these kinds of studies, presents these kinds of scenarios to patients and not surprisingly, gender choice is connected to the context of the exam for men and women. Most of these kinds of studies don't consider context, and none that I can find ask why patients prefer one gender over another. You're simplifying a complicated human, psychological response. And, I must say, if this is such a contentious issue -- why do we just accept that most women today, esp. young women, prefer female doctors for intimate exams? Is there something wrong with these women? Are they in the stone age? Why is it so difficult to understand that a significant number of male and female patients prefer same gender care depending upon the context? I do understand that in a perfect world with perfect human beings, perhaps gender wouldn't matter. But this isn't a perfect world, people aren't perfect, and much research out there demonstrates that gender matters in many different contexts.
Mar 31, '10Great Questions poet!!!For the family Doctor(s): Yes
*Daughter ( RN) and Wify have Their own female Doctor
*Son and I have our own Male Doctor
And just so everyone knows, there is a whole other matter for discussion regarding private practice, I can assure you they are having their own problems, so it is not just a hospital issue.
Other than intimate examinations or procedures, I or my family don't care.
You make very good points though on some earlier observations about context.
In my Humble opinion there is change happening, we cannot assume that the way it was done is going to stay the way it is. I for one, see change as a good thing. The Human condition is complex and encompasses the emotional and personal side as well. Once cannot work on one aspect and ignore the others, they all fit together and affect the outcome. A specific instance is the story told by ImaWonderer about her experience and the one about the young boy.
Mar 31, '10Quote from Cul2Agreed, everyone is different in their beliefs and preferences. But how do you suggest we accommodate these special requests? The reality is that the nurse who is on the schedule (or the nurse that has this particular patient under his/her care) will be in charge of doing caths and other cares related to genital areas. Do you think that hospitals should have male and female nurses on-call in case of a gender specific request? If the hospital can accommodate because they happen to have a nurse of each gender on-duty that is one thing, but suggesting that the option to request a specific gender of a nurse should always be available is unrealistic. It's not a question of sensitivity, it is a question of realistic situations in the world of nursing. There are not typically extra nurses just hanging around waiting for these types of requests....plenty of budget cuts and staffing cuts are going on in this financial atmosphere.To wahwahgerman -- Everyone is different. They have different values and beliefs. Everyone isn't the same as you. Do you believe these differences should be respected? Or do believe in the "one size fits all" philosophy? To assume that people who don't see modesty the way you do are living in a stone age, is arrogant. I hope you're more open to different cultures and values that that. And again, we're dragged back into the ER. Most reasonable people will accept that emergencies are different situations. And, as you say, "Nurses are professionals, they provide privacy and promote dignity as much as possible regardless of gender." Although that's true, you need to be sensitive to patient feelings, beliefs, religions, cultural backgrounds, and possible sexual abuse history. It's more complicated that the stone age vs. "modern" times.
Apr 1, '10Okay, let's talk about a scenario. Patient A is going to have a bowel resection, and will need a foley placed preop. Patient A has requested a male nurse. Currently the only male nurse working is scrubbed on a laparoscopic nephrectomy. Neither the circulating nurse nor scrub nurse assigned to Patient A has ever scrubbed a laparoscopic nephrectomy. Should the hospital send someone to relieve the male nurse and replace him with someone who is not competent for the case? Where would the line be drawn between Patient A's request for a male nurse and Patient B's right to have a competent nurse caring for them?
Let's use the scenario that hospitals should have an equitable ratio of male to female nurses. So should those applying be told that regardless of experience, references, education, etc. that the hospital is going to hire someone with less experience, not so great references, and less education simply because they need to balance the staff gender ratio? I'd refuse to work in such a facility, and they could (rightly so) be sued for discrimination.
A patient always has the right to take their business elsewhere, where providing them with the gender of nurse they prefer would not adversely affect the care given another patient.