Caught diverting,admitted to it, have a lawyer. "Complaiance meeting " is Jan 30th. Recruiters won't assit with job placement. Hospitals won't hire, wehter I explain to them or not. Will any one hire as long as it's A "grey undetermined " area.
Got a decent job offer then rejected so psychologically depressed..
Aside from me admitting guilt to personal use narcotic diversio , the key "complaints listed" are undocumented waste and giving a pain med to early, and the having a narcotic in my pocket which I had to hand off to another nurse due to changing of pt assignment.
I still have no idea what she did with it, as we should of wasted it....
Neither I nor the nurse who wasted pressed thr "confirm waste " button which honestly why the hell is it there. Nor did pharmacy or charge or manager ever bring the issue up...Until after termination via the submitted info to BON.
Been reading stories and they are all so depressing, it's like why bother ,go do something else.
HPRP program may be required which costs..get this 20k a year for 1-3 years. Sooo. 20 ***ing thousand, I could go to a luxurie inpatient rehab for that amount.
I no longer have any desire for drugs and actually avoided giving them at my last job. I found my root cause analysis.
I've already said here a few times, I understand ill get the program. What im pissed about is a year ago my lawyer told me to wait and I was dumb and listened now I call and talk to her about what I've read here and shes all yes call to start HPRP... so pissed
So what should I be asking at my hprp meeting, and yes I still plan on going on vacation prio to starting this ***. \
I admitted to it ad my investigation meeting, cuz my lawyer essentially stated they'll find out eventually,and once you lie you'll loose any credibility and next to no chance at keeping license..
so after entering hprp don't continue to use lawyer essentially.
I cant believe your lawyer told you to admit anything, if they didn't have hard core evidence. of topic but any good lawyer would tell you to never admit guilt, I mean look at luigi mangione, he's on so many videos and still pleaded not guilty. lawyers are there to challenge them not to find you guilty (or have you admit at anything), unless you entering a plea deal.
anyway, its pointless to have a lawyer once you enter hprp. they don't have a saying on anything once you're in the program. you can still keep the lawyer, just in case, they'll only charge you if you use them.
when you call hprp, let them know BON is doing an investigation and I wanted to call and go through the process to save my license. thats all. you don't have to go in a lot of details. then they will ask you ton of questions regarding whether you diverted or not, if you tell them yes, they will mark you as a high risk meaning you have to test 4-5 times a week until you get an evaluation. Say exactly what you have admitted so far, and nothing more. just say you don't remember, they cant punish you if you don't remember. hprp's job is to evaluate if you need the program or not. BON's job is to take actions against your license.
hprp will do a background check, your MAPS, your evaluator will contact three of your support people and so on. so basically you will be scrutinized some more.
its a long and scary process. I hated my life going through this, but I only had to go through this for 2 months.
when I called hprp, I told them "im not sure why im calling, my lawyer told me to call you. im in a pickle with BON and I want to save my license, I didn't divert but I need this evaluation for the BON and save my license."
I've already said here a few times, I understand ill get the program. What im pissed about is a year ago my lawyer told me to wait and I was dumb and listened now I call and talk to her about what I've read here and shes all yes call to start HPRP... so pissed
So what should I be asking at my hprp meeting, and yes I still plan on going on vacation prio to starting this ***. \
I admitted to it ad my investigation meeting, cuz my lawyer essentially stated they'll find out eventually,and once you lie you'll loose any credibility and next to no chance at keeping license..
so after entering hprp don't continue to use lawyer essentially.
The poster who stated that a lawyer is useless once you start hprp is spot on. This is what I've tried to tell nurses and what many others have told nurses for many years and your story is an example of 1 of 100s on this Board over the past 15 years. The lawyer commonly tells nurses to "wait and don't start monitoring yet" because they are taking your money and using you, then a year goes bye and they have made their money, and then it's all of a sudden "OK' for you to start monitoring now. They tell you not to start monitoring because some people screw up as soon as they start monitoring and their license is revoked on the spot and then the lawyer is terminated because nurses then know there's no point and the lawyer gets no money.
I will repeat this again. Since you admitted that you diverted at work, you are done in the eyes of the BON regarding guilt and will get the max regardless of what an SUD eval says. Drop the lawyer, admit you diverted, get into monitoring, complete monitoring, move on with your life. You have let a year go by (not your fault) you were lied to by an attorney. Get into monitoring immediately.
For all nurses reading this who just got into trouble with the Board. For the ones that know the evidence is clear and easily proven by what you admitted, or the pixis clearly showing a problem or 3 people showing you were drunk or high at work, GET into monitoring that same day. If you want to play the lawyer game and try to "scheme" or "beat it" and go that route, fine, but when the lawyer tells you to "hold off on monitoring" right now, do not listen to them. They are lying to you to take your money. But....... If you have done nothing wrong and you truly know you don't have a problem, then lawyer up and don't do monitoring until forced to do so.
As for SUD evals. In Michigan, you are close to Parkdale Center in Northwest Indiana. It's one of the leading rehab centers in the nation for nurses and medical providers and offers a comprehensive SUD eval that costs 2500 to 3000 dollars. There are many like this. If the BON forces you to do an SUD eval, it will be one within your state (Michigan) BUT if you choose to do one on your own for a 2nd eval, you can go anywhere in America. SUD evals done at more prestigious rehab places hold more weight and are usually as a 2 day stay with drug testing of hair and nails being one part and o ly about 20 percent of it. The other part (80 percent) is a battery of tests and interviews. This is a true SUD eval and they aren't 500 dollars. You can go to some rehab places that will charge 500 bucks for an SUD eval, but they aren't as extensive and they generally don't do anywhere close to the workup that the more prestigious places do and the BON knows this and they don't hold as much weight. This is why the BON has approved eval sites within the state. Yes, some of it is money and corruption by the BON tied in with the rehab place, but some of it is also because the BON knows there are fly by night "therapists or counselors" out there that say they do SUD evals and they aren't anywhere close to being a true extensive eval.
Many of the prestigious rehab places like Parkdale have people that work directly with the BON and they are actually neutral and if you don't have an SUD, members of the BON will be made to know that clearly you don't have an SUD. They hold great weight and the eval isn't "opinion based." It's done with a battery of drug tests and written tests that statistically, research driven, have 99 percent specificity and sensitivity scores for detecting and ruling out SUD. Hazeldon in Minnesota is another famous one to check into.
There are tons of independent "therapists and counselors" or small recovery/rehab places that say they offer an SUD eval, and they charge 500 bucks and do a urine test and an interview and that's about it. Trust me, these types of "evals" hold very little weight with the BON.
For any nurse who has overwhelming discrepancies in the pixis because you were diverting, or you admitted it at work, or you know deep down you were still intoxicated the morning you showed up to work and 2 people have verified it......stop fighting and get into monitoring the very next day. In these cases, You ARE going to monitoring if you want to keep your license, period. If you want to do the lawyer thing, then do it, but do not wait to start monitoring because you will be one of THOUSANDS across the USA that let a year go by, then you are kicking yourself after when all is said and done...your lawyer gives up the ghost and tells you to start monitoring. The overwhelming majority of nurses don't know any better and they trust their attorney.
If you know deep down you don't have a problem and you know you did nothing wrong and that you are being hosed, lawyer up and don't even think about monitoring or speaking with the BON or anyone until your lawyer says so.
The poster who stated that a lawyer is useless once you start hprp is spot on. This is what I've tried to tell nurses and what many others have told nurses for many years and your story is an example of 1 of 100s on this Board over the past 15 years. The lawyer commonly tells nurses to "wait and don't start monitoring yet" because they are taking your money and using you, then a year goes bye and they have made their money, and then it's all of a sudden "OK' for you to start monitoring now. They tell you not to start monitoring because some people screw up as soon as they start monitoring and their license is revoked on the spot and then the lawyer is terminated because nurses then know there's no point and the lawyer gets no money.
I will repeat this again. Since you admitted that you diverted at work, you are done in the eyes of the BON regarding guilt and will get the max regardless of what an SUD eval says. Drop the lawyer, admit you diverted, get into monitoring, complete monitoring, move on with your life. You have let a year go by (not your fault) you were lied to by an attorney. Get into monitoring immediately.
For all nurses reading this who just got into trouble with the Board. For the ones that know the evidence is clear and easily proven by what you admitted, or the pixis clearly showing a problem or 3 people showing you were drunk or high at work, GET into monitoring that same day. If you want to play the lawyer game and try to "scheme" or "beat it" and go that route, fine, but when the lawyer tells you to "hold off on monitoring" right now, do not listen to them. They are lying to you to take your money. But....... If you have done nothing wrong and you truly know you don't have a problem, then lawyer up and don't do monitoring until forced to do so.
As for SUD evals. In Michigan, you are close to Parkdale Center in Northwest Indiana. It's one of the leading rehab centers in the nation for nurses and medical providers and offers a comprehensive SUD eval that costs 2500 to 3000 dollars. There are many like this. If the BON forces you to do an SUD eval, it will be one within your state (Michigan) BUT if you choose to do one on your own for a 2nd eval, you can go anywhere in America. SUD evals done at more prestigious rehab places hold more weight and are usually as a 2 day stay with drug testing of hair and nails being one part and o ly about 20 percent of it. The other part (80 percent) is a battery of tests and interviews. This is a true SUD eval and they aren't 500 dollars. You can go to some rehab places that will charge 500 bucks for an SUD eval, but they aren't as extensive and they generally don't do anywhere close to the workup that the more prestigious places do and the BON knows this and they don't hold as much weight. This is why the BON has approved eval sites within the state. Yes, some of it is money and corruption by the BON tied in with the rehab place, but some of it is also because the BON knows there are fly by night "therapists or counselors" out there that say they do SUD evals and they aren't anywhere close to being a true extensive eval.
Many of the prestigious rehab places like Parkdale have people that work directly with the BON and they are actually neutral and if you don't have an SUD, members of the BON will be made to know that clearly you don't have an SUD. They hold great weight and the eval isn't "opinion based." It's done with a battery of drug tests and written tests that statistically, research driven, have 99 percent specificity and sensitivity scores for detecting and ruling out SUD. Hazeldon in Minnesota is another famous one to check into.
There are tons of independent "therapists and counselors" or small recovery/rehab places that say they offer an SUD eval, and they charge 500 bucks and do a urine test and an interview and that's about it. Trust me, these types of "evals" hold very little weight with the BON.
For any nurse who has overwhelming discrepancies in the pixis because you were diverting, or you admitted it at work, or you know deep down you were still intoxicated the morning you showed up to work and 2 people have verified it......stop fighting and get into monitoring the very next day. In these cases, You ARE going to monitoring if you want to keep your license, period. If you want to do the lawyer thing, then do it, but do not wait to start monitoring because you will be one of THOUSANDS across the USA that let a year go by, then you are kicking yourself after when all is said and done...your lawyer gives up the ghost and tells you to start monitoring. The overwhelming majority of nurses don't know any better and they trust their attorney.
If you know deep down you don't have a problem and you know you did nothing wrong and that you are being hosed, lawyer up and don't even think about monitoring or speaking with the BON or anyone until your lawyer says so.
In Michigan you don't go to a rehab center for an evaluation by HPRP It's Zoom no rehab center. My friend diverted and didn't have to go anywhere but his living room to do the zoom evaluation.
In Michigan you don't go to a rehab center for an evaluation by HPRP It's Zoom no rehab center. My friend diverted and didn't have to go anywhere but his living room to do the zoom evaluation.
yep, I went through this, and I was in my living room while doing the evaluation for hprp. I didn't have to go to any rehab centers, nor will I advice anyone to go through such thing. one thing at a time my friend. not everyone needs "hardcore" rehab.
What your lawyer did regarding telling you to admit guilt was likely spot on. The lawyer was wrong for telling you to hold off on monitoring (that was for him or her to make money off of you), but telling you to admit guilt could be correct in certain circumstances and those circumstances are........if you admitted guilt already at work and if the pixis shows you are way out there regarding pulls compared
Healer555 said:
In Michigan you don't go to a rehab center for an evaluation by HPRP It's Zoom no rehab center. My friend diverted and didn't have to go anywhere but his living room to do the zoom evaluation.
Doesn't matter if it's zoom, telepathy, car or horse, going to a more prestigious rehab place for an SUD as a second opinion is the smarter choice and two of those are Parkdale and Hazeldon and those are 2500 to 3000 dollars, 2 days in length and hold great weight because these 2 basically write 90 percent of the recovery and SUD literature for medical professionals across the country.
yep, I went through this, and I was in my living room while doing the evaluation for hprp. I didn't have to go to any rehab centers, nor will I advice anyone to go through such thing. one thing at a time my friend. not everyone needs "hardcore" rehab.
Nobody mentioned "hard-core rehab." What they have mentioned is......get started in the monitoring program and they mentioned the common theme with lawyers telling nurses to hold off on monitoring, then a year goes by, then the lawyer says to start monitoring, then the nurse is kicking themselves for not starting it.
Guess what happened in this situation? The lawyer told said to hold off on monitoring, a year went by, now the lawyer says it's OK to start monitoring, and now this nurse is kicking themself. We could discuss whether the SUD eval is here or there or 100 dollars or 10 million or in the home by zoom or gloom or in China. It doesn't matter. The nurse has admitted guilt and the evidence is there and the lawyer KNEW the evidence was there 1 year ago and your lawyer KNEW 1 year ago that you would end up in monitoring. This is the point Im trying to make and trying to prevent other nurses from losing that year or 18 months where they kick themselves wishing they could have started the clock earlier with monitoring. Scroll back on this board from 2015 and read how common this situation is.
What your lawyer did regarding telling you to admit guilt was likely spot on. The lawyer was wrong for telling you to hold off on monitoring (that was for him or her to make money off of you), but telling you to admit guilt could be correct in certain circumstances and those circumstances are........if you admitted guilt already at work and if the pixis shows you are way out there regarding pulls compared
Doesn't matter if it's zoom, telepathy, car or horse, going to a more prestigious rehab place for an SUD as a second opinion is the smarter choice and two of those are Parkdale and Hazeldon and those are 2500 to 3000 dollars, 2 days in length and hold great weight because these 2 basically write 90 percent of the recovery and SUD literature for medical professionals across the country.
Hprp only uses their evaluators. Hprp decides the length of the monitoring agreement. The BON in Michigan defers to Hprp. No need to do an evaluation anywhere not approved by HPRP.
As for a lawyer for HPRP they are only helpful for choosing a fair evaluator and if you mess up with HPRP and get kicked out of HPRP.
I had 2 lawyers then went to one. I hired a lawyer when I got in trouble with the Board. When I got criminally charged, I hired another lawyer (a criminal defense attorney.) To deal with the criminal charges. I told my criminal defense attorney I had another lawyer representing me for the BON issues and he laughed at me. He asked me...was I high at work and do I think 2 other people witnessed it? I said at least 5 other people did and already reported it. He asked if I had pixis pulls that would be largely different from other nurses? I said yes. He asked me if I admitted to diversion to my boss? I said yes. He told me to drop my attorney that was representing me for the BON because all I was doing was throwing money away and that there was nothing that attorney could do to help me with the BON based on the evidence. He told me it didn't matter what the SUD eval showed because the BON already had enough evidence to put me into monitoring and if I admitted guilt and started monitoring, I would be better off and keep my license. He was CORRECT.
I got rid of the attorney I had for the BON and dealt with the BON myself. My criminal lawyer dealt with the criminal charges and thank God for him. The attorney I had (eventually fired) for the BON had told me the same exact ***...."don't start monitoring yet." If I would have listened to his dumbass, a year would have gone by, and I would have been out of 10 grand given to him only to be in the exact same spot I was a year before.
My criminal defense attorney told me that when the evidence is overwhelming and it's clear the nurse was guilty, then the only thing an attorney can do for you is peace of mind, but it's false hope. They can't help your case in these situations and in the end, you are 10K short and a year behind on monitoring or 18 mo ths behind when you could have had a year or 18 mo ths of this BS already behind you.
But again, in cases where the evidence is not clear and you don't have an SUD or did nothing wrong, an attorney can work wonders for you
Hprp only uses their evaluators. Hprp decides the length of the monitoring agreement. The BON in Michigan defers to Hprp. No need to do an evaluation anywhere not approved by HPRP.
All of the above sentences are true except for the last sentence. When attorneys are involved and a place that literally writes the literature for nurses regarding recovery and the literature HPRP is using comes from the place that does the eval, it holds weight in a court of law before an administrative judge regardless of whether HPRP approves it.
My friend in Ohio was falsely accused and got screwed and had a bogus eval approved place by Ohios monitoring/recovering program that said she had an SUD. She got a lawyer and got her own eval (a 2nd opinion eval) done at Hazeldon saying she didn't have an SUD. The case went before an administrative judge and she even file suit against the Ohio BON and monitoring program. The BON relented and she was let off with a warning by agreeing to drop the legal suit.
If you are going to go the lawyer game, then go all in. Don't half *** it. If you don't have a problem and you have a very respectful place saying so, then it doesn't matter if that state "approves it" as It Relates to a 2nd eval that you get on your own. The nurse isn't under consent order yet and that nurse with a savvy lawyer can fight it to the point it goes before a judge and a nurse can sometimes win.
But again, in the case of already admitting diversion and multiple pixis discrepancies, you are hosed. A second eval is a waist of time. They got you.
All of the above sentences are true except for the last sentence. When attorneys are involved and a place that literally writes the literature for nurses regarding recovery and the literature HPRP is using comes from the place that does the evalit holds weight
My friend in Ohio was falsely accused and got screwed and had a bogus testing approved place by Ohios monitoring/recovering program that said she has an SUD. She got a lawyer and got her own eval done at Hazeldon saying she didn't have an SUD. Thr case went before an administrative judge and she even file suit against the Ohio BON and mo ignoring program. The BON relented and she was let off with a warning.
If you are going to go the lawyer game, then go all in. Don't half *** it. If you don't have a problem and you have a very respectful place saying so it doesn't matter if that state "approves it." The nurse isn't under consent order yet and that nurse woth a savvy lawyer can fight it to the point it goes before a judge and a nurse can win.
But again, in the case of already admitting diversion and multiple pixis discrepancies, you are hosed. A second eval is a waist of time. They got you.
That was Ohio. Every state is different. In Michigan the board always sides with what HPRP says. The only reason I'd try for a second evaluation for the OP is if 5 years not 3 is given. The OP is definitely getting a monitoring agreement. There's no need to do Evaluations not approved by HPRP. I think ohio may be one of the states where the board and not a separate monitoring agency does everything like California.
For nurses who are guilty and know the evidence is clearly against them, be sure to get into monitoring early and don't wait on what your lawyers says because they are ***ting you and taking your money. Don't let a year go bye wastong time only for your lawyer to tell you to start monitoring after you have blown 10K and you could have 1 year already done. Submit, submit, submit.
For nurses who truly know they have done nothing wrong and the evidence is not against them, lawyer up, keep your mouth shut, don't enter monitoring or anything else until your lawyer says so and basically do exactly what your lawyer says. Fight fight, fight!
That was Ohio. Every state is different. In Michigan the board always sides with what HPRP says. The only reason I'd try for a second evaluation for the OP is if 5 years not 3 is given. The OP is definitely getting a monitoring agreement. There's no need to do Evaluations not approved by HPRP. I think ohio may be one of the states where the board and not a separate monitoring agency does everything like California.
The BON HPRP and an administrative judge are not the same and every state is exactly the same regarding who holds more power. The judge holds more power and an attorney can help get the case Beyond the BON in ANY state when the evidence is weak and most important when the nurse has a true comprehensive eval from a respected place saying No SUD. Why don't we here about this more? Because the evidence against nurses is too great or they don't get a 2nd eval showing no SUD, so the lawyer doesn't push it higher because they know they lose. So a monitoring agreement is done.
Comprehensive evals (true evals) taking toenails goes back 1 year and if evidence against the nurse is week and the eval shows No SUD which means no drugs found in nails for up to one year a lawyer WILL take that case/get it pushed up to a judge and the nurse can win. Why doesn't this happen more often? Because 90 plus percent of nurses that find themselves in trouble are more than likely guilty and they won't pass that comprehensive all inclusive extensive eval that actually is taking toenails and looking back one year.
Nurselee22
71 Posts
I cant believe your lawyer told you to admit anything, if they didn't have hard core evidence. of topic but any good lawyer would tell you to never admit guilt, I mean look at luigi mangione, he's on so many videos and still pleaded not guilty. lawyers are there to challenge them not to find you guilty (or have you admit at anything), unless you entering a plea deal.
anyway, its pointless to have a lawyer once you enter hprp. they don't have a saying on anything once you're in the program. you can still keep the lawyer, just in case, they'll only charge you if you use them.
when you call hprp, let them know BON is doing an investigation and I wanted to call and go through the process to save my license. thats all. you don't have to go in a lot of details. then they will ask you ton of questions regarding whether you diverted or not, if you tell them yes, they will mark you as a high risk meaning you have to test 4-5 times a week until you get an evaluation. Say exactly what you have admitted so far, and nothing more. just say you don't remember, they cant punish you if you don't remember. hprp's job is to evaluate if you need the program or not. BON's job is to take actions against your license.
hprp will do a background check, your MAPS, your evaluator will contact three of your support people and so on. so basically you will be scrutinized some more.
its a long and scary process. I hated my life going through this, but I only had to go through this for 2 months.
when I called hprp, I told them "im not sure why im calling, my lawyer told me to call you. im in a pickle with BON and I want to save my license, I didn't divert but I need this evaluation for the BON and save my license."