Online or In person?

Trauma Columnist · Jul 26, 2018

Moved to student NP forum

adreamdeferred, MSN, RN, APRN, NP · Jul 26, 2018

Hello,

In my opinion online is not easier. I am in the last two weeks of my AGPCNP program and it has been grueling. First, I chose my online program because I am on 11 week quarters and the thought of 16 week semesters was unbearable. With that being said I also hate discussion posts and online programs are notorious for this, however, I hated semesters more apparently. Also, you are responsible for learning the material as there is no lecture. You get a list of weekly readings and assignments and you complete it all to the best of your ability. You have to figure out what is important for yourself. My student colleagues who attend brick and mortar programs tell me their didactic and theory courses had a fair amount of online time/content. One even told me her assessment class consisted of them watching a video in the lab versus hands on instruction, so not always better than an online school. Pros and cons to both. You have to decide what your needs and wants are. I would have loved to sit in a lecture, take notes and then go home and read to "fill in the blanks" versus having to study everything myself. I learn better through lecture, examples from professor but because I forced myself to start the program because waiting until I was mentally ready would mean pushing my fifties and less money into my retirement plan, I chose this route. As much as I love nursing, if I knew what I know now instead of going to nursing school I would have went to PA school just because the consensus has been among my student colleagues who attend various programs (online and brick and mortar), NP education overall is lacking in content. There education is different and they are more prepared when they start clinical. I plan to try to implement changes in NP education starting with my state organization once I get a chance. I know I got off topic, but hope this is helpful.

203bravo, MSN, APRN · Jul 26, 2018

To add to what adreamdeferred said: You are going to have to worry about clinicals during your pregnancy regardless of the program you chose.

BlueSandBeach, RN · Dec 29, 2023

"Also, you are responsible for learning the material as there is no lecture. You get a list of weekly readings and assignments and you complete it all to the best of your ability."

Wait, I'm confused, there's no lectures?

"I would have loved to sit in a lecture, take notes and then go home and read to "fill in the blanks" versus having to study everything myself. I learn better through lecture,"

YES, that's me too!! Your other post says there were lectures, pre-recorded and not pre-recorded-

At the time of writing this post, maybe you hadn't had any of the classes with the lectures?

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Dec 29, 2023

The most important criteria in selecting an NP school is whether or not they find clinical placements for you. ONLY attend a school that will find the clinical placements!

Most schools now offer a hybrid program with a lot of didactic content delivered online, with some in-person sessions. There is no way that you can learn everything purely online. For one thing, you have to be in-person to learn and practice physical exam skills.

In addition, please do not go to a for-profit school.

BlueSandBeach, RN · Dec 29, 2023

I don't think any of the online schools actually find your preceptorships for you, regardless of anything they say or allude to. I'll be searching for those myself, and I'm pretty relentless about things I put my mind to. I've already found a website that will hook me up with someone (I have to pay) but still will accommodate me none the less.

I can't do in person. Online is my only option, and that's why I'm open to schools with a high amount of clinical hours vs NKU which is only 500. I went to a very, very cheap associate's degree program, in person. I can't go into the eons of pages I would write to cover my list of regrets, LOL. That's why I'm focusing on what helps me stay COMFORTABLE while I learn, which is hearing a voice. I've taken a few how do you learn tests- I'm mainly an auditory learner. Hearing other people's voices and being able to interact with them (in person) helps too- but I can't do this program in person, so some lectures mixed in with everything else is going to help me.

I noticed in another post you referred to first, second and third tier schools- does online also have those classifications? It isn't the workload, it's my experience in my associate's degree that makes me want to do online.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Dec 30, 2023

BlueSandBeach said:

you referred to first, second and third tier schools- does online also have those classifications? It isn't the workload, it's my experience in my associate's degree that makes me want to do online.

There are a lot of online and hybrid programs now. Many programs are hybrid - either certain classes are in person or everything is online, except the students come to the campus once per semester for 3 or 4 days.

Honestly, for your first NP degree, I have no idea how you can do a 100% online NP Program without ever meeting in person. You just will not get a decent education. Certain things have to be done in person, like labs on various exams and so forth, as well as simulations. In addition, at the end of the program (I am talking about primary care or acute care), there is a day-long lab of examing real, live people who are paid scientific models, to perform Ob/Gyn and male genital and prostate exams. I'm sorry, but no amount of online is going to replicate that.

I was OK doing my PMHNP online, since I already had an AGPCNP MSN. I earned my Post-Master's PMHNP from Johns Hopkins, and that was an online program. However, I already had my AGPCNP MSN. Since COVID, schools have become much more comfortable with hybrid programs. For example, at Hopkins, for the primary care MSNs, most of the lectures were recorded, so you could watch them when convenient; you didn't have to go to class just to listen to a lecture. They even had virtual office hours. And this was before COVID.

Frankly, you are better off trying to get into the best-quality program you can that will find preceptors. It is hard for most people to find preceptors, so save yourself a lot of agony and go to a school that finds your placements. It is absurd to demand 100% online for an NP Program. You are only going to find crap programs that do that. And school does matter for NPs.

BlueSandBeach, RN · Dec 31, 2023

FullGlass said:

There are a lot of online and hybrid programs now. Many programs are hybrid - either certain classes are in person or everything is online, except the students come to the campus once per semester for 3 or 4 days.

Honestly, for your first NP degree, I have no idea how you can do a 100% online NP Program without ever meeting in person. You just will not get a decent education. Certain things have to be done in person, like labs on various exams and so forth, as well as simulations. In addition, at the end of the program (I am talking about primary care or acute care), there is a day-long lab of examing real, live people who are paid scientific models, to perform Ob/Gyn and male genital and prostate exams. I'm sorry, but no amount of online is going to replicate that.

I was OK doing my PMHNP online, since I already had an AGPCNP MSN. I earned my Post-Master's PMHNP from Johns Hopkins, and that was an online program. However, I already had my AGPCNP MSN. Since COVID, schools have become much more comfortable with hybrid programs. For example, at Hopkins, for the primary care MSNs, most of the lectures were recorded, so you could watch them when convenient; you didn't have to go to class just to listen to a lecture. They even had virtual office hours. And this was before COVID.

Frankly, you are better off trying to get into the best-quality program you can that will find preceptors. It is hard for most people to find preceptors, so save yourself a lot of agony and go to a school that finds your placements. It is absurd to demand 100% online for an NP Program. You are only going to find crap programs that do that. And school does matter for NPs.

Hi FullGlass,

I like your name btw,

Unfortunately, I really don't think any of them actually assist with clinical placement. I think it's hype to get you on board. That said, I'm up for that challenge. I want control of that, I want a diverse variety of preceptors, patients, places and experiences. I really want to learn from my clinicals. I'm persuasive and I don't mind paying. I'm paying the school an ungodly amount for something over the internet LOL, I don't mind paying preceptors for actually teaching and supervising me. If I can't find people in time, that'll be a bummer but postponement or waiting isn't the end of the world.

I don't feel comfortable with putting myself in the position where I can be thrown out of an expensive program if I can't hop on a plane once of the 5 times I need to whisk away for 4 days. Life is unpredictable and that's a recipe for failure. I avoid situations where I lose when something out of my control happens. Safety from this is worth the risk of what I might be missing, because I know somewhere somehow, I'll end up getting whatever I missed, if indeed I even missed something. A 4 day cram session after being on a plane, checking into a hotel and ubering somewhere isn't my best learning situation. It's true I can cram for a test and I do well, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's engrained. Repetition is learning for me. Anyway, to each their own. No need for a prostate model LOL, I'm doing psych. I do agree in person for the physical learning would be necessary.

I have it narrowed down to 2 schools now. I've been contacted by someone from each who have both said 1. they liked the program and what they liked about it 2. they felt prepared by the program 3. the professors were responsive and good 4. they have found a job they love. They are both well-spoken and sound happy. LOL DECISIONS! ?

barcode120x, RN, NP · Jan 1

I guess you could say technically my program was hybrid because we had 2-3 days must-attend seminars (basically all day lectures on course content and a few exams) at the beginning and end of every semester on campus while the remainder of everything else course related was online. I honestly found the seminars a complete waste of time as it was no different than watching the lectures online, you were just there in person during the seminars and can ask questions on the spot. Then again, textbooks will always be dry, no matter if you read it yourself or someone lectures you on it. I found it easier to understand, learn, and comprehend family med from my preceptors than I did reading and taking exams. I do agree and understand simulations should be done in person though, at least for the start of any NP Program. Funny thing is, covid hit after my first semester and everything went online, even the simulations. I did my BSN online which was basically self run/self taught and I found that way more appealable because I could choose when to do my study days, homework days, and my exams while scheduling work and life stuff. NP course work was similar; however, clinicals were another story.

If you can find a good program that provides clinical, definitely go through with it. Otherwise, prepare yourself early and start finding preceptors before you start.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Jan 2

BlueSandBeach said:

I have it narrowed down to 2 schools now. I've been contacted by someone from each who have both said 1. they liked the program and what they liked about it 2. they felt prepared by the program 3. the professors were responsive and good 4. they have found a job they love. They are both well-spoken and sound happy. LOL DECISIONS! ?

Did they discuss finding clinicals? Are these for-profit schools? DO NOT go to a for-profit school. I was just contacted by Walden and offered $1500 to precept a student. I refused. Many preceptors will flat out refuse to precept students from for-profit schools.

There are indeed schools that will guarantee finding clinical placements. Other schools will assist, and you will have to determine how much you can rely on this. For example, if you are living in Los Angeles, and attend a college located there, there will likely be alumni there that would be willing to precept. Nursing schools at universities with medical schools will also have more possible preceptors (MDs). I am much more open to precepting a student from a school that I am an alumna of. If you are attending a well-known school like Hopkins or Vanderbilt, there are more preceptors nation-wide that will consider working with you.

BlueSandBeach, RN · Jan 3

FullGlass said:

Did they discuss finding clinicals? Are these for-profit schools? DO NOT go to a for-profit school. I was just contacted by Walden and offered $1500 to precept a student. I refused. Many preceptors will flat out refuse to precept students from for-profit schools.

There are indeed schools that will guarantee finding clinical placements. Other schools will assist, and you will have to determine how much you can rely on this. For example, if you are living in Los Angeles, and attend a college located there, there will likely be alumni there that would be willing to precept. Nursing schools at universities with medical schools will also have more possible preceptors (MDs). I am much more open to precepting a student from a school that I am an alumna of. If you are attending a well-known school like Hopkins or Vanderbilt, there are more preceptors nation-wide that will consider working with you.

Hopkins and Vanderbilt are out, because of the mandatory campus show ups. I have a feeling they are out of my price range, too.

None of the schools I'm considering are for profit.

I don't believe any of them find placements. I think that's a bunch of hooey when they say they will.

But I do believe you when you say, preceptors may be more inclined to say yes depending on how they feel about the school or if they graduated from that school themselves.