Obamacare and hospitals

elkpark · Nov 19, 2014

Yes, that is my point. Why would we trust those evil republicans, and even the god-sent democrats, to run a cost-effective, efficient, and non-corrupt Medicare for all?
As for most of everything else you posted, well, it's obvious that you are one of the folks I mentioned that believe the federal government can run health insurance better efficient and cost effective then what private health insurance companies do. You have posted opinion pieces to back it up, just like I had a opinion piece to go with what I believe.
However, I also have common sense and history on my side.

While the pieces I linked were opinion pieces, the numbers quoted in the articles are factual, not opinion. It's not "opinion" that traditional Medicare is operating with a single-digit level of administrative/overhead costs -- exact figures vary, depending on who you ask, but everyone (even, as I posted above, the redoubtable conservative bastion, Forbes magazine) seems to agree that they are

SC_RNDude · Nov 19, 2014

When that program was conceived and the bill written and then passed into law there must have been a plan to cover that additional expense of the incentive bonuses. The fiscal conservatives in Congress must have required that be addressed, right? That is sort of their hallmark comment..."how are you going to pay for ___"?

Yes, republicans often use the "how are you can to pay for it?" when it works to their advantage.

The reality is, I'm sure you know, that congress (both sides) always finds the money (borrows, prints it) when the politics of the situation call for it.

SC_RNDude · Nov 19, 2014

While the pieces I linked were opinion pieces, the numbers quoted in the articles are factual, not opinion. It's not "opinion" that traditional Medicare is operating with a single-digit level of administrative/overhead costs -- exact figures vary, depending on who you ask, but everyone (even, as I posted above, the redoubtable conservative bastion, Forbes magazine) seems to agree that they are
And for every article you find that says Medicare is more efficient, I find another one that says it is not. It's not so much the numbers are that much different, it's the interpretation of how those numbers are arrived at and what they mean.
What kind of corruption do I think afflicts Medicare? See the link at the bottom of post #126. That is basically congress and insurance companies working together to rip off the taxpayer.
You even admitted that there is a lot of fraud involving the providers. Who do you think keeps a tighter reign on that? Private companies trying to maximize profits, or the federal government who just prints more money when what they have runs out.
You mention that it is the "free market" at work that is at fault. There is nothing about our healthcare system that is the free market.
And, I'm all ears. My mind is open. What does the federal government run in a cost-effective, non-corrupt, and efficient manner?

MunoRN, RN · Nov 19, 2014

And for every article you find that says Medicare is more efficient, I find another one that says it is not. It's not so much the numbers are that much different, it's the interpretation of how those numbers are arrived at and what they mean.
What kind of corruption do I think afflicts Medicare? See the link at the bottom of post #126. That is basically congress and insurance companies working together to rip off the taxpayer.
You even admitted that there is a lot of fraud involving the providers. Who do you think keeps a tighter reign on that? Private companies trying to maximize profits, or the federal government who just prints more money when what they have runs out.
You mention that it is the "free market" at work that is at fault. There is nothing about our healthcare system that is the free market.
And, I'm all ears. My mind is open. What does the federal government run in a cost-effective, non-corrupt, and efficient manner?

I've yet to see an article you've provided that says medicare is less efficient. You provided one article, from AHIP, that didn't even say that. It sort of implied it, but if you actually look at the references they use they all say the opposite.

MunoRN, RN · Nov 19, 2014

Just like they fund everything else they don't have money for. On the back of the taxpayers.

Exactly, medicare advantage, which is just medicare benefits managed by a private company instead of the government, costs more than government run plans and exist on the back of taxpayers, so why does that make you think private insurer run coverage is cheaper?

SC_RNDude · Nov 19, 2014

I believe we have covered that. The government overpays the insurance companies for medicare advantage.

MunoRN, RN · Nov 19, 2014

I believe we have covered that. The government overpays the insurance companies for medicare advantage.

We have been overpaying, based on the insurance industries own complaints that they just can't do what regular medicare does for the same price.

http://www.ahip.org/Issues/Medicare-Advantage.aspx

SC_RNDude · Nov 20, 2014

We have been overpaying, based on the insurance industries own complaints that they just can't do what regular medicare does for the same price.
America's Health Insurance Plans - Medicare Advantage

Your not getting it. The complaints are bogus.

You might want to ponder the notion that perhaps medicare overpayments have more to do with political favors then economics.

MunoRN, RN · Nov 20, 2014

Your not getting it. The complaints are bogus.
You might want to ponder the notion that perhaps medicare overpayments have more to do with political favors then economics.

There could well be a long list of reasons why it costs more for us to use for-profit insurers, but in the end the fact still remains that it costs us more. Are you saying you're not opposed to paying more so long as it's due to political favors?

SC_RNDude · Nov 21, 2014

There could well be a long list of reasons why it costs more for us to use for-profit insurers, but in the end the fact still remains that it costs us more. Are you saying you're not opposed to paying more so long as it's due to political favors?

No, of course not. Don't waste our time with such a dumb question.

Medicare Advantage costs us more then medicare because it is a product of politicians and health industry lobbyists working together. Which brings me back to my point, that there isn't anything that runs cost-effective or efficient when it is the federal government running it.

The bottom-line is that it is obvious that you think that the government can spend our healthcare dollars for us better then what we can for ourselves. That is the basis of why you and others think a single-payer system is the way to go.

elkpark · Nov 21, 2014

No, of course not. Don't waste our time with such a dumb question.
Medicare Advantage costs us more then medicare because it is a product of politicians and health industry lobbyists working together. Which brings me back to my point, that there isn't anything that runs cost-effective or efficient when it is the federal government running it.
The bottom-line is that it is obvious that you think that the government can spend our healthcare dollars for us better then what we can for ourselves. That is the basis of why you and others think a single-payer system is the way to go.

Now you're just talking in circles. Medicare Advantage costs more because your friends, the Republicans, intentionally set it up as corporate welfare for their for-profit insurance company buddies. Traditional Medicare does operate in a cost-effective and efficient manner, and has for decades.

As for the government "spend(ing) our healthcare dollars for us better than what we can for ourselves," you obviously believe that private, for-profit insurance companies (which have, by definition, the primary goal of turning as large a profit as possible for their shareholders, not making sure that people get the healthcare they need) make better healthcare decisions for us than we can for ourselves. I wonder how you arrived at that conclusion? Medicare and a single-payer system are not about making decisions about spending healthcare dollars "for us" -- indeed, traditional Medicare enrollees have much more freedom about making their own decisions about healthcare than people with private insurance (including those in Medicare Advantage programs); no in-network/out-of-network crap, no narrowing the provider pool to increase profits they can choose for themselves who they want to see and what procedures and treatments are their best option, and the government doesn't tell them otherwise. That is a lot more than anyone with private insurance can say ...

Your arguments remind me of the PJ O'Rourke quote, "Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it."

SC_RNDude · Nov 22, 2014

Now you're just talking in circles. Medicare Advantage costs more because your friends, the Republicans, intentionally set it up as corporate welfare for their for-profit insurance company buddies.

So, we agree. Medicare Advantage costs more not because it is run by private business, but because it is a product of politicians and health insurance companies scratching each others' backs at the expense of the taxpayer.

My friends, the republicans? You would be hard-pressed to find a time when I have raved about anything the republicans have done. And, lets don't pretend that the democrats are any better when it comes to these things.