NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees

[Brian]

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse.

New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN certification-a step that critics worry could serve as a body blow to a profession already facing a severe shortage.

Under the state Board of Nursing proposal, RNs with associate's degrees would have to earn bachelor's degrees within 10 years, or their RN certifications would be downgraded to that of licensed practical nurse. That would make nursing somewhat like teaching in New York state; certified K-12 teachers need master's degrees or must obtain one within three years of starting a job. It would also add years and thousands of dollars to the difficulty of becoming an RN...

Full Article: http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0413BA3TIOG_news.shtml

[SmilingBluEyes]

I'm really glad that the BSN nurses I work with don't treat me like a second-class citizen just b/c I don't have my BSN yet!

Anyway, I was w/my sister while she gave birth yesterday. I'm still on cloud nine. Well, the younger BSN nurse who had her as a patient for the first 7 hrs of labor did okay, but as an RN myself, I couldn't help but point out to her that the LR going in to my sister was wide open. Thank God I saw it. Also, after about 3 liters of fluid, I couldn't help but ask if maybe a foley might be a good idea, as my sis hadn't voided in about 6 hrs and her epi had just been started. When she started c/o rectal pressure after just being told she was 100% effaced and 9cm dilated, my BIL and I rang the call bell and in comes a diploma nurse w/30 yrs experience and boy, did she know her stuff! She was incredible! I'm no OB nurse, so I was so glad she showed up!

I'm just saying that experience is not the only important thing, but it is the most important.

This person either was very overloaded and handling too much at once or is very much in need of re-orientation to OB. There is so much wrong there, the standard of care was not close to being met.

Truly, It's got nothing to do with whether her background is BSN or AD or Diploma. That is lousy care, period.

Oh and congrats on the new baby in your family!

[LandDRN]

Just a story. They put one of our BSN nurses (we're a pretty even mix here) as charge the other night ( as we were told because of her BSN , mind you she had never even been to/ worked a code.) In a nutshell a critical situation arised and two of us ADN nurses took over and ran the code. The morale of this story is that education doesn't always equal experience either!

[nyforlove]

I believe that a 4-yr degree requirement will benefit society, patients, and also nurses in terms of employment pay/respect/opportunities...The ADN programs typically require 2+ years anyway w/prerequisite courses and summer work...Also, so many ADNs voluntarily go back for their BS--I admire them for that!---so, I hope we can all pull together and support the Nursing Organizations in supporting this...Certified Public Accountants have done a similar thing over the past 20 years as they worked (and still work) to get states to require a Masters before taking the CPA exam...

[nyforlove]

You said it well! I hope the Nursing Organizations will push for this.

Then how do you account for the fact that Physical Therapist, Occupational Therapists, Pharmacists, etc., have always make more money than RNs? They have always made higher salaries than RNs, and their salaries have risen expontentially as they have increased their entry into practice.

Twenty years ago, their National Organizations decided to increase their educational preparation. They did that solely to increase their worth in the workplace, (when DRGs became the norm for hospital reinbursement), and prevent themselves from being replaced by lesser skilled individuals. It is harder to validate (convince the public) replacing someone with a Masters Degree, or higher, with a HS dropout, than someone who, from the get go, only has one or two years of post HS education. Don't forget, these careers ALWAYS had a Bachelors degree as entry into practice to start.

They hold onto their professional practice like glue. The PTs are very selective about who and what they delegate their practice skills to. The higher education levels keep the program application and completion numbers low. The hospitals have to wait 8 years for the next class of PTs or pharmicists to graduate. And with a limited group of lesser skilled practitioners to choose from, and allowed to delegate thing to, it is a given that the hospitals have to wait, and work harder to hold onto the grads that they have.

That is what nurses should be working to emulate. But the overwhelming numbers of nurses who continue to demand, what they feel is their God Given right to remain the least educated of the health care professional, prevent nursing from taking their place in the workplace next to the others.

I realize that there are a number of nurses who have come into nursing as a second career, and have already gone through school to learn a first career. But that is the price you pay to learn a second career, and is really not our problem. Law is a common second career choice for many individuals. Many business people go into law, as do an increaing number of nurses and doctors. Do doctors ask to go through an abbreviated law school course, because they have already attended medical school for four years? No, they go through the entire three years of law school. So why should someone who already has a career that they earned a Bachelors degree in feel that should not have to earn a Bachelors Degree in Nursing? They even have accelerated programs to accomodate these individuals. Why is nursing the welfare of women's/second careers?

It comes down to that there is really no good reason not to increase the education levels of nursing, only a plethora of excuses and sob stories. Until it changes, we will continue to remain powerless, at the bottom of the food chain.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Hey no problem. I'll gladly put my 27 years of expertise on the back burner and go back to school and get more edumacation. While, The patients suffer at the hands of nubee nurse with advanced degrees. They still don't get it: nursing is 1st and foremost a hands on skills profession. Pt care requires the touching of patients, and gets better as your comfort levels and experience increase.

Geezeus, just what are they smokeing up in Albany

Paul

Maybe they will share what they are smoking

[christel]

you wanna know the stupid think, the only difference between the city college and the state college here in fresno is the state college offers 5 upper division general education courses, that has nothing to do with nursing...everything else is the same, program and all....

[burn out]

Just a story. They put one of our BSN nurses (we're a pretty even mix here) as charge the other night ( as we were told because of her BSN , mind you she had never even been to/ worked a code.) In a nutshell a critical situation arised and two of us ADN nurses took over and ran the code. The morale of this story is that education doesn't always

equal experience either!

I don't know why it is always the ADN putting down the BSN. How long had the poor charge nurse BSN even been a nurse? Thank goodness she had you and the other ADN back her up but goodness a paramedic can run a code-nursing is not all about coding someone- hopefully it is about preventing one. In a bsn program you are taught a scientific approach to providing nursing care so that in any situation you can function. It is with this knowledge base that a new graduate enters the nursing world and then gets the experience. Granted the first year may be more difficult for the bsn nurse but in the long run I would much rather have a BSN caring for me.

[irishnurse67]

I don't know why it is always the ADN putting down the BSN. How long had the poor charge nurse BSN even been a nurse? Thank goodness she had you and the other ADN back her up but goodness a paramedic can run a code-nursing is not all about coding someone- hopefully it is about preventing one. In a bsn program you are taught a scientific approach to providing nursing care so that in any situation you can function. It is with this knowledge base that a new graduate enters the nursing world and then gets the experience. Granted the first year may be more difficult for the bsn nurse but in the long run I would much rather have a BSN caring for me.

I guess things in the college you attended are different than in the one I go to. I have my ADN now. While in that program, I learned the scientific approach to providing care. Now that I'm in the BSN program, all I'm learning is theory-type stuff. I'm not saying this knowledge isn't worth obtaining, it's just that I notice no difference in performance in the ADN vs BSN nurses that I work with.

[noelle07]

This has always really confused me. I am in an ADN program right now and it worries me a little. I had always planned on eventually getting my BSN, but there is no telling if I definatly will. In our clinicals there are nurses with BSN constantly telling us that we should have to get our BSN to be considered registered nurses. My thought is, we take the same exact board exam as them and are just as qualified to care for patients, with the exception of the management courses that are given in the BSN programs.

[Geeg]

I bet this legislation was encouraged by the universites... They get lotsa $$ for little outlay. These days school is all independent study or by correspondance quided by computers. There is very little Teaching or guidance out there anymore. They give you that "you're a professional and can guide your own learing" garbage.

[Otessa, BSN, RN]

North Dakota used to require a 4-year degree and if you moved into the state you had a certain amount of time to get your Bachelor's degree-has that changed?

[Otessa, BSN, RN]

Good deal. If you want to be treated as a professional, why not require what is considered a professional degree. In just about every field I can think of that is a bachelor's , and in some cases a master's.

bob

I agree!!!

we are a PROFESSION!