NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees

[Brian]

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse.

New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN certification-a step that critics worry could serve as a body blow to a profession already facing a severe shortage.

Under the state Board of Nursing proposal, RNs with associate's degrees would have to earn bachelor's degrees within 10 years, or their RN certifications would be downgraded to that of licensed practical nurse. That would make nursing somewhat like teaching in New York state; certified K-12 teachers need master's degrees or must obtain one within three years of starting a job. It would also add years and thousands of dollars to the difficulty of becoming an RN...

Full Article: http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0413BA3TIOG_news.shtml

[Otessa, BSN, RN]

Just another attempt to eliminate the ADN program. In all the recommendations for BSN as the entry level they fail to inform the public and legislators the ADN program is the only one based on research. The research behind the implementation of the ADN is the reason the programs have been extremely successful for 50+ years and will continue to be successful!

I am from a BNSc program that was way ahead of its time obviously. I graduated in 1992 and the ENTIRE program was evidence-based(research-based). I am wondering what proof or research you are alluding to in this statement "ADN program is the only one based on research". ONLY-no.

[burn out]

I guess things in the college you attended are different than in the one I go to. I have my ADN now. While in that program, I learned the scientific approach to providing care. Now that I'm in the BSN program, all I'm learning is theory-type stuff. I'm not saying this knowledge isn't worth obtaining, it's just that I notice no difference in performance in the ADN vs BSN nurses that I work with.

Then why did you go back? I guess you get out of it whatever you put into it.I really don't mean to sound harsh but I really believe that the more knowledge you have the better anything you are-whetether it be a nurse or a brick layer.

[mojo23]

There are way too many factors involved in this debate. If NY decides to implement this, the state should most definately fund the education. Considering we are already overtaxed, I doubt this will happen. I always thought a BSN is a good idea if the program is put together properly and includes enough clinical and more assessment related classes-less emphasis on time consuming projects and papers. I make as much money as my colleagues so my BSN so far has not done so much for me in that respect. I did enjoy most of the program.

[lindarn]

There are way too many factors involved in this debate. If NY decides to implement this, the state should most definately fund the education. Considering we are already overtaxed, I doubt this will happen. I always thought a BSN is a good idea if the program is put together properly and includes enough clinical and more assessment related classes-less emphasis on time consuming projects and papers. I make as much money as my colleagues so my BSN so far has not done so much for me in that respect. I did enjoy most of the program.

First and foremast, all ADNs and Diplomas need to be grandfathered in. The hospitals need to step up to the plate and sponser on site RN-BSN programs, for those that do want to earn a BSN. They have done this for pharmacists, they can do this for nurses. We have to demand it. The same program can be offered to the LPN/LVNS to move up to a RN.

For class space, the community colleges (and on line programs), can offer the first two years of undergraduate education, and then the students can move on to a four year college to the last two years.

In NYC, Downstate Medical Center in Brooklyn has a BSN program that ONLY offers the LAST two years of the BSN. It has always been like this, and I lived in Brooklyn through 1979. My best friend completed the BSN program there. (present day NYers, is this still the case with Downstate)?

Anyway, this would ease up some of the fear that there is not enough classroom space to accomodate these students. Findng more teachers will mean forcing colleges to pony up more $$$ for them. Cut back on the ever important football and basketball teams, and coaches.

We have to include the public in these discussions. We have alllowed the hospitals and insurance companies to shut us out, and shut us down.

The public has a vested interest in having enough licensed, educated, nurses to care for them. Along with safe staffing levels. We have to take this fight to the public and inform them what has gone on and what will happen if there are not enought nurses.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

[irishnurse67]

Then why did you go back? I guess you get out of it whatever you put into it.I really don't mean to sound harsh but I really believe that the more knowledge you have the better anything you are-whetether it be a nurse or a brick layer.

The reason I went back is b/c it's been a goal of mine to have a Bachelor's degree ever sice I was a little kid. I also went back b/c I know that when I'm old, I don't want to be on my feet all day, running around like a chicken w/my head cut off. In other words, my BSN will open more doors to me career-wise. I'm sure you're right that I'll be a better nurse when I get my BSN, but I don't think it's going to better my clinical or assessment skills. Those you get from actually doing hands-on patient care. I know a few nurses w/their Master's who readily admit that they have never done hands-on nursing and would never dare do it, yet I know several LPNs who could run circles around most nurses, myself included. And again, I'm only stating what's going on at UNH, which is only one of many BSN programs in the country. Also, maybe I need to actually graduate from the program before this vast amount of increased knowlege kicks in. Personally, I didn't think everything really "clicked" until I'd been a nurse for several months. I know for sure that I won't think that ADN nurses are any less than me when I get my BSN. When I became an RN after being an LPN, I surely didn't think that I was any better. It all boils down to what the individual is, not what the degree is. Oh, and you didn't sound harsh!

[Lammy]

although true that most professions are BS or MS degreed, they also offer summers off, school schedules, opportunity for commission, lunch and potty breaks, protection from verbal, physical and sexual abuse, contracts that provide you with salary increases, as well as being able to go to bed by 11. Did I mention that we have the exclusive on all the bodily secretions a PROFESSIONAL RNBSNMSNPHDCYA could ever want? Hurry folks sign up for your $40,000 degree.

[~Anne~]

Does having your BSN make you a better nurse ???? I probably shouldnt say this , and im sure someone will be offended , but most BSN grads that i work with , (and even they agree) did not get very much clinical experience , as the 2 and 3 year programs seem to get . Maybe things have changed , but in my opionion , if you have the "calling " to be a nurse, you dont need a BSN degree to make you good at what you do !

[lindarn]

Does having your BSN make you a better nurse ???? I probably shouldnt say this , and im sure someone will be offended , but most BSN grads that i work with , (and even they agree) did not get very much clinical experience , as the 2 and 3 year programs seem to get . Maybe things have changed , but in my opionion , if you have the "calling " to be a nurse, you dont need a BSN degree to make you good at what you do !

ALL NEW GRADS would benefit from a 6-12 month paid internship such as PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, etc. have to accomplish before they are turned out on their own. A big part of their burn out within a short time after graduation is the "sink or swim" mentality of the nursing profession.

Nurses seem to feel that they need to be able to "hit the ground running", the day after graduation, and if you can't there is something wrong with you, and/or the nursing program that you attended.

College is where you learn the science behind what you do. An internship is where you learn the nuts and bolts, and practical aspects of your profession.

This concept has worked well for physicians, PTs, OTs, Pharmacist, etc. All professions that have a much higher level of education for entry into practice, are rewarded with far more respect than nurses, and make far more money than nurses do. Its not the license, its the education! CONNECT THE DOTS!!

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

[rfmages]

Nurses follow and implement physician orders and may have some standing orders to follow but the jobs are not even remotely close and nurses do not diagnose so I do not agree nurses are doing 80% of what doctors used to do.

I can only laugh about this comment, first off I dont care, if the person working with me is an ADN, BSN, MSN or for that fact a professor that taught me in school. YEs some know more then others and some use it better then others. But a nurse is a nurse, we are all a special breed and so this beacuse we love it or loved it at one time. I have heard banter about this law since I origianlly started nursing school back in 93 and 20 some years later and its still the same. IF it changes it shanges, we will all just have to deal with it and do what we have to. Now as far as the statement I quoted above, if you dont think that nurses are doing 80% of what MD's used to do, you ahvent been exposed to alot of different nursing opportunities. I wont say waht I do or dont do at work, but I can say that MD's encourage the nurses in our unit to be autonomous and take the bull by the horns. They know us and we know them and we watch out for each other. We do more now then ever before. Do we diagnosis, not on paper but if I call an MD or a PA for something, I usually tell them what I think it is and bam, I write an order for what I already gave. Enough said.

[joejoe101]

This is not the best idea NYS has ever came up with, & it is not the first time they have brought this issue up. The problem is that the nursing shortage isn't expected to get any better, in fact the average age of nurse's in the US is like 46. Many people enjoy the fact that they can become an RN in 2-3 years, while they are raising a family or whatever the circumstance. Becoming an RN is a difficult process in a 2 year program, and the nurses aren't any less of quality than that of a 4 year program. Many of the classes offered during the 4yr program aren't nursing related. I think that nurse's should be encouraged to continue their education, but not required. Having a A.A.S. isn't any less PROFESSIONAL than having a Bachelor's degree.

[kathi yudin]

this is very true! I don't understand why they want to make the existing RN's go back for the BSN if you want to mandate that for the future fine ( i personally think this could be a very good idea in a lot of ways) but everybody already in practice or enrolled in nursing school should not be affected. They should just be "grandfathered" in. And the existing ADN and diploma programs should be offered partnership programs with the Universities and Online BSN programs for telecourses and distance learning options so that getting a BSN is accesible to everyone, otherwise this plan just won't work.

I trained in ny 30 yrs ago at a aas program.. 4 yrs ago i completed my bsn and am currently enrolled in an msn program for my np.. my bsn has not made me a better nurse.. it is the clinical time that makes the nurse.. the book work is great but.. applying what you learn.. having the ability and knowledge to use critical thinking skills.. that is what makes the nurse.. it doesnt' matter if you have an rn from a diploma program.. an rn from an aa program or a bsn.. it is how you apply your knowledge.. i am not against bsn trained nurses.. however.. i do believe that those with an rn prior to when and if it becomes a law.. should be grandfathered in.. ny was talking of doing this 30 yrs ago when i was a nursing student.. and those who already had a degree w/ i believe a set # of yrs would be grandfathered in.. that never came to fruition.. i don't know in this day and age w/ the nursing shortage as bad as it is.. that that will happen yet again.. it would be a devastating mistake if it does!!!.. good nurses will be lost!!..

[shelbells]

Does anyone happen to know where I can find information regarding North Dakota's decision to reverse their BSN requirement? I am leading a class discussion in a few weeks on the topic of nursing education and I think it might be an interesting topic to mention. Any links to web sites or articles would be greatly appreciated!