Nursing Unions

Onekidneynurse · Dec 29, 2009

I support Unions and they support membership/Nurses. Whether or not you like them is irrelevant to me. I have benefited from their association with Nursing and Bucks, Bennies and over all work conditions as well as relationships with management/Nurse has become less oppositional/confrontational and much more civil.
For the few in this forum who have not had similar experiences and who by no means constitute a majority there are just as many RN's who have had excellent experiences with Unions. The benefits brought by the Union far out weights the cost of Dues.
I had been a Union rep for a few yers and represented quite a few Nurses who were getting screwed by administration and helped to get them fair and just treatment as per hospital/union policy which Admin was not compliant with.
CWA/UNAC Keep up the great work you do!
Ignore the scabs, and administration brown noses, happy la de da Nurses who see nothing wrong with the way they are abused by administration, who would rather suck up to administration then fight for their rights!

Unions aren't a majority in nursing either. 150,000 of 3,000,000 is hardly a majority.

So you're patients don't poop or vomit correct. Families don't complain about you? Correct. And you have no openings at your hospital? Correct. If a nurse refused to have you go in with her/him to the supervisior would you honor that request.

Do you know where your dues go? Do you know they might go to canidates or issues you might not agree with? Do you know what the higher ups on your union make? Do you know what the middle management make in your union.

If unions are so great why are they being decertified? In California even.

Onekidneynurse · Dec 29, 2009

Wages are like real estate. Its location, location, location.....That said on average there is a very real premium for union members vs. non members.
This translates societally on a more important level to better educational and health care systems for members of society. Compare any RTW state with a non RTW state on outcome measures such as life expectancy and HS graduation rates. The non-RTW states do not come off well in these comparisons.

Don't you have some nonsense graph to support those figures?

There are 22 RTW states. Are you saying that only 28 states in the union have better educational and healthcare systems?

Wanna talk about Detroit. It was heavily unionized. What happened?

GCTMT · Dec 30, 2009

Don't you have some nonsense graph to support those figures?
There are 22 RTW states. Are you saying that only 28 states in the union have better educational and healthcare systems?
Wanna talk about Detroit. It was heavily unionized. What happened?

In regards to your comments about Detroit; our manufacturing base was shipped to China and other parts of the world that don't provide decent working conditions for their citizens, and thus the bargaining power of unions in the US is useless.

Emergency RN · Dec 30, 2009

in regards to your comments about detroit; our manufacturing base was shipped to china and other parts of the world that don't provide decent working conditions for their citizens, and thus the bargaining power of unions in the us is useless.

right, lol... next we'll be transporting our icu patients to china or india where nurses & doctors make one tenth of us salaries (or something ridiculous like that). :uhoh3:

seriously, unions are nothing more than a collective voice that speaks loudly for a class of similar interests. the only people or organizations that ever have problems with unions are those that don't want to listen to that collective voice. there is always strength in numbers, and even hospitals know this. they form their own unions but call them associations. hospital associations present a collective face to the public; they determine what prices they are willing to pay for supplies; whose political campaign gets contributed to; et cetera. in other words, they collective bargain with society through an allied front because they all have similar interests and needs. in this regard, they are very pro collective bargaining because it aids their own operations. they're just not willing to allow those that they have to deal with, the same collective voice advantage. :down:

support your nursing unions! :up:

HM2VikingRN, RN · Dec 30, 2009

I have no need to repeat previous work. If you look back through my posts on this forum there are plenty of links available to support my comment about outcomes data.

One of the differences that I think arises is how the social contract is reformulated. Union members (in general) demand that government perform and that is reflected in the outcomes data. (Add in that union members tend to advocate for policies arrived at through democratic decisions at the local level that benefit all working families and that explains many of the differences in the outcomes.)

(Picking out problem cities in both RTW and non RTW states is easy. It is also not comparing apples to apples......)

In solidarity

Onekidneynurse · Dec 31, 2009

right, lol... next we'll be transporting our icu patients to china or india where nurses & doctors make one tenth of us salaries (or something ridiculous like that).
seriously, unions are nothing more than a collective voice that speaks loudly for a class of similar interests. the only people or organizations that ever have problems with unions are those that don't want to listen to that collective voice. there is always strength in numbers, and even hospitals know this. they form their own unions but call them associations. hospital associations present a collective face to the public; they determine what prices they are willing to pay for supplies; whose political campaign gets contributed to; et cetera. in other words, they collective bargain with society through an allied front because they all have similar interests and needs. in this regard, they are very pro collective bargaining because it aids their own operations. they're just not willing to allow those that they have to deal with, the same collective voice advantage.
support your nursing unions!

india seems to be the country of choice this week. if you don't think nurses can't be insourced or outsourced then you are putting your head in the sand.

the unions in detroit priced themselves right out of jobs. that is a fact.

Onekidneynurse · Dec 31, 2009

I have no need to repeat previous work. If you look back through my posts on this forum there are plenty of links available to support my comment about outcomes data.
One of the differences that I think arises is how the social contract is reformulated. Union members (in general) demand that government perform and that is reflected in the outcomes data. (Add in that union members tend to advocate for policies arrived at through democratic decisions at the local level that benefit all working families and that explains many of the differences in the outcomes.)
(Picking out problem cities in both RTW and non RTW states is easy. It is also not comparing apples to apples......)
In solidarity

So you admit that RTW states have good outcomes. A turn about on your part? Wanna talk about Baylor University in Texas, or Duke or UNC in NC. Or Vanderbuilt in TN. All right to work states. Even some Arizona healthcare out comes beat out Cali right next door. With all it's "great union care" and staffing ratios etc.

It's sorta like when my town wanted to build a new school and keep the same old teachers. A building didn't educate the students.

GCTMT · Dec 31, 2009

India seems to be the country of choice this week. If you don't think nurses can't be insourced or outsourced then you are putting your head in the sand.
The unions in Detroit priced themselves right out of jobs. That is a fact.

Depends on your perspective, doesn't it? You say it's a fact that they "priced themselves right out of jobs". I say their employers exploited third-world populations because American workers asked for decent wages and decent working conditions.

So, should I assume that you think it's okay for Wal-Mart, for example, to exploit the people of China so that Americans can buy cheap crap, while simultaneously devaluing the worth of the working class American?

What's wrong with asking for a decent living and a decent workplace?

HM2VikingRN, RN · Dec 31, 2009

So you admit that RTW states have good outcomes. A turn about on your part? Wanna talk about Baylor University in Texas, or Duke or UNC in NC. Or Vanderbuilt in TN. All right to work states. Even some Arizona healthcare out comes beat out Cali right next door. With all it's "great union care" and staffing ratios etc.
It's sorta like when my town wanted to build a new school and keep the same old teachers. A building didn't educate the students.

No I said compare apples to apples. Undoubtedly some of the universities in the RTW states are good to great institutions. I spoke to things like percentage of uninsured, HS graduation rates, percentage of the populace with college educations, teen pregnancy rates etc. I was speaking to population data. IOW data derived from populations of people. These are all metrics where non-RTW states in general outperform RTW states.

I was speaking to the social contract that tends to evolve in states with strong protections of workers and their right to organize.

Emergency RN · Dec 31, 2009

india seems to be the country of choice this week. if you don't think nurses can't be insourced or outsourced then you are putting your head in the sand.
the unions in detroit priced themselves right out of jobs. that is a fact.

indian, or other foreign nurses cannot be "insourced" unless the us congress is convinced that the job skill set cannot be resourced by available us employment market assets. a lot of people fervently talk about foreigners coming over and taking us nursing jobs from americans, but the truth is, the us state department won't grant anyone an h1 work visa unless congress authorizes it.

as for your other fact; so what you're saying is, that if the american auto worker was only paid, say, ...half of what he normally earned, the american made automobile would be the best selling car in the world?

lol... detroit fell on their faces from a myriad of reasons, and most of them had nothing to do with unions, but rather bad management instead. years ago, i remember lee iaccoca on national television begging the american public to allow chrysler time to "retool" their plants and to give them a chance after japanese imports pounded detroit into the mud. the unions in detroit did not price themselves out of a job; they could have worked for free and the automakers still would have lost market share. why? because us automakers simply dropped the ball and got sandbagged; they were making a product that no one wanted. even tremendous markdown sales, rebates, extras, whatever, couldn't steer the american buyer away from their foreign made vehicles. big auto fell on their swords, and took their innocent hard working employees with them. when companies fail, it is never the workers fault, but always the management's misdoing. :down:

i suppose now someone out there is going to harp on how the unionized secretary ruined lehman brothers, and thus the us economy and thence the world financial markets. people are certainly entitled to believe whatever they want; just that many of those facts being spouted aren't supported at all by the historical evidence. :bugeyes:

support your nursing unions! :up:

Onekidneynurse · Jan 1, 2010

Depends on your perspective, doesn't it? You say it's a fact that they "priced themselves right out of jobs". I say their employers exploited third-world populations because American workers asked for decent wages and decent working conditions.
So, should I assume that you think it's okay for Wal-Mart, for example, to exploit the people of China so that Americans can buy cheap crap, while simultaneously devaluing the worth of the working class American?
What's wrong with asking for a decent living and a decent workplace?

Do you get double time on Sundays? Let's see a job or the poor house. I vote for the job. BTW I believe China is loaning America money now. LOL

Onekidneynurse · Jan 1, 2010

No I said compare apples to apples. Undoubtedly some of the universities in the RTW states are good to great institutions. I spoke to things like percentage of uninsured, HS graduation rates, percentage of the populace with college educations, teen pregnancy rates etc. I was speaking to population data. IOW data derived from populations of people. These are all metrics where non-RTW states in general outperform RTW states.
I was speaking to the social contract that tends to evolve in states with strong protections of workers and their right to organize.

And I did a search. And many of the RTW states have better outcomes. I don't know where you got your data I know what the government data says though.