Nursing and unionization...

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Specializes in Dialysis, Hospice, Critical care.

Recently, we were gathered in a meeting held by human resources regarding attempts by a national labor organization to unionize nurses in our area. Now, if anyone can use good union representation, it's nurses. Provided, of course, the union is more interested in serving the needs of the nurses and their patients rather than lining the pockets of union leadership.

And it seems to be the latter in this case. The union is using both grass-roots organizing and what are called "corporate campaigns". The former is well and good as the potential union member has a say in the matter through a vote for unionization. The latter, however, does nothing but honk me off. Corporate campaigns, as they are called seem to be aimed at pressuring management into signing 'neutrality' and 'card check' agreement, either of which will prevent the employees at a given facility from being able to vote on unionization. Any union victory achieved by this means would be Phyrric, at best. The new, and involuntary, union members would be bitter and resentful at not having any say in the matter, and management would be disinclined to negotiate in any constructive way with the union. The ultimate result would seem, at least to me, to be a decline in patient care as nurses disgusted by the process left the profession, leaving those remaining to carry an even heavier burden, leading to more nurses leaving the profession...a vicious cycle.

The unions president has gone so far as to say to health care organizations, " We will unionize your workers or we will destroy your reputation." This would seem to indicate a less than whole-hearted support of nurses, and more about securing his own power and prestige. I have contacted the union in question, both by e-mail and snail-mail regarding this issue and have, thus far received no response. Apparently, they lack the courage of their convictions. If they want to unionize, put it before the nurses. If they can secure better working conditions, pay and benefits for the employees...If the union can constructively engage management to raise everybody's boat and help us provide the best possible patient care, there will be a union. But if they want to engage in the skulduggery and reputation assassination that these 'corporate campaigns' seem to imply, they can fold it five ways and stuff it where the sun never shines.

Any thoughts?

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So far my experience with unions has been the same as yours. If they could show me how they could make nursing better I would be the first to sign up but none of them have been able to show me what they can do for me that I can't already do for myself. So far all I have seen from the union is another layer of management trying to sustain their own survival by taking union dues from me. I do not see where they can make my life better but I can see how they can make it worse .

I think there has recently been new legislation passed at either the state or federal level making it easier for unions to enter the workplace. Please correct me if I am wrong but I was thinking that now just by siginig a union card showing that you are interested in more information about the union, that they can now say that is your vote for the union. Before just because you signed a union card did not mean you had to vote that way but with new legislation I beleive that has changed. So don't sign anything unless you are sure you want your vote to count for the union.

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Specializes in mostly in the basement.
So far my experience with unions has been the same as yours. If they could show me how they could make nursing better I would be the first to sign up but none of them have been able to show me what they can do for me that I can't already do for myself. So far all I have seen from the union is another layer of management trying to sustain their own survival by taking union dues from me. I do not see where they can make my life better but I can see how they can make it worse .

See, I don't get this... I am not entirely blanket----yay unions!, at all---but here in CA it was the CNA that pushed so hard for our ratio laws that were vehemently opposed by lawmakers and hospital lobbys and you can't deny that has made nursing "better'' for most of us here. At least compared to some of the horror stories I read on here regarding that day in and day out.

Some people will say, but wait, those ratios are at the expense of losing UAP and to some extent that may be true but not to nearly the degree that union naysayers make it out to be. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many med/surg or, in my case, ER nurses in CA that wish to go back to "the way it was." I'll keep my max 4 patients, thanks.

Again, I'm not unilaterally for unions in every case but to say that, at least in CNA's case, that they haven't improved nursing and done something that you simply can't do for yourself, well, just wanted to throw my two cents in....

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So far my experience with unions has been the same as yours. If they could show me how they could make nursing better I would be the first to sign up but none of them have been able to show me what they can do for me that I can't already do for myself. So far all I have seen from the union is another layer of management trying to sustain their own survival by taking union dues from me. I do not see where they can make my life better but I can see how they can make it worse .

See, I don't get this... I am not entirely blanket----yay unions!, at all---but here in CA it was the CNA that pushed so hard for our ratio laws that were vehemently opposed by lawmakers and hospital lobbys and you can't deny that has made nursing "better'' for most of us here. At least compared to some of the horror stories I read on here regarding that day in and day out.

Some people will say, but wait, those ratios are at the expense of losing UAP and to some extent that may be true but not to nearly the degree that union naysayers make it out to be. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many med/surg or, in my case, ER nurses in CA that wish to go back to "the way it was." I'll keep my max 4 patients, thanks.

Again, I'm not unilaterally for unions in every case but to say that, at least in CNA's case, that they haven't improved nursing and done something that you simply can't do for yourself, well, just wanted to throw my two cents in....

Where I work the nurse/patient ratio is not any different than what you had to fight to get in CA. If unionization is what works for CNA that is great but I do not think that what is best for CNA's is exactly the same as what is best for nurses. If I were to join a union it would have to be one specifically for nurses and one the would advance the nursing agenda. Personally I would not want to belong to a automakers or miners union anymore than I would want to belong to a CNA's union. Sorry if I stepped on toes but a Nurse is not the same as a CNA.

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Specializes in mostly in the basement.

Oh, didn't realize anywhere else in the country it was mandated law re: nursing ratios (i.e. 1:4 ER, 1:5 med/surg) Good to know some facilities may be doing it just to do it. It doesn't sound like that's the norm though.

BTW, CNA--California Nurses Association...

Again, I respect anyone's right to NOT be union. Fight the good fight :)

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Union Bad, Me Speak for Self Good :sofahider

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I have worked with only unionized facilities and at first I loved it. Even told people that I would not want to work anywhere else. Loved the job security, feeling that I had a voice, etc but now that I have a couple of years under my belt, I have changed my opinion.

In unionized places, it is very, very hard to get incompetent people out the door. It takes years of documentation and persistence. I have seen so many bad nurses and even more bad CNA's continue to keep their jobs in spite of the crap job they do. Meaning that they are constantly nowhere to be found, scream, yell and intimidate coworkers, refuse their assignment and more importantly provide unsafe care. It is very scary to see this go on and stressful to have to deal with incompetent coworkers that are being protected by their union. I can see how in some ways the union has made pt care better (pt ratios, pay) but in some ways pt care is far far worse.

Yes it is a union, but it is also a business. They are making money and have a powerful incentive to get into a hospital and "represent" nurses.

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I always hear that union hospitals have bad nurses because the union protects them from being fired. But I've seen plenty of bad nurses at non-union hospitals also. Some of these places have poor morale, poor retention and hire just about anyone.

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Specializes in Adult ER.

I have worked in both unionized hospitals and non-unionized hospitals. I can tell you this when i was working in a non union hospital I truly missed my union. Unsafe working conditions, not getting breaks and being told I do not necessarily need one or being told that no matter what I must stay once my shift is done is utter crap. I like the security of having someone (or a group of someones) back me up if there ever came a need. I like having base wage's set out a head of time so that i know what I am worth to all hospitals not just one.

I know many American's are very anti union and maybe thats a result of past experiences. The union I belong to is run solely by nurses that were voted in by nurses. If we are unhappy with what what is happening in the union at the next vote in then those rotten apples can be booted out.

No matter what a union is only as strong as those that support it. A single person is rarely ever able to make a stand/statement however thousands can.

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I have worked in both unionized hospitals and non-unionized hospitals. I can tell you this when i was working in a non union hospital I truly missed my union. Unsafe working conditions, not getting breaks and being told I do not necessarily need one or being told that no matter what I must stay once my shift is done is utter crap. I like the security of having someone (or a group of someones) back me up if there ever came a need. I like having base wage's set out a head of time so that i know what I am worth to all hospitals not just one.

I know many American's are very anti union and maybe thats a result of past experiences. The union I belong to is run solely by nurses that were voted in by nurses. If we are unhappy with what what is happening in the union at the next vote in then those rotten apples can be booted out.

No matter what a union is only as strong as those that support it. A single person is rarely ever able to make a stand/statement however thousands can.

:welcome: :yeahthat:

You have said exactly what I have said. The union is as strong as the members make it. Organized influence on terms and conditions of employment leads to better long term results for the members as a whole.

My challenge to those who complain about unions is to look at the overall pay and benefit structures for communities/states with a strong labor presence versus the states with a weaker labor movement. In general the quality of life for workers and families are improved with better schools, better pay/benefits, and in general the health outcomes are better.

I think its both naive and short-sighted to expect that management wiull always be kind and fair. Managgement will treat me with dignity and respect. Unions do provide protections from arbitrary and capricious managers.

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i think there has recently been new legislation passed at either the state or federal level making it easier for unions to enter the workplace. please correct me if i am wrong but i was thinking that now just by siginig a union card showing that you are interested in more information about the union, that they can now say that is your vote for the union. before just because you signed a union card did not mean you had to vote that way but with new legislation i beleive that has changed. so don't sign anything unless you are sure you want your vote to count for the union.

facts about the card check process:

http://www.americanrightsatwork.org/takeaction/efca/efca_q_a.cfm#jump5

q: do majority sign-up procedures and nlrb elections require the same measure of majority support?

a: no. majority sign-up procedures--under current law as well as the employee free choice act--require a higher standard of majority support. under majority sign-up procedures, a majority of all the employees in the bargaining unit must support union representation, and employees who cannot be identified or located are presumed not to support union representation. in nlrb elections, only a majority of those employees who actually vote is required.

q: why aren't secret ballot elections supervised by the national labor relations board (nlrb) more democratic than majority sign-up procedures?

a: nlrb elections are actually less democratic than majority sign-up procedures. majority sign-up procedures are better at ensuring employee free choice by allowing employees to express their true wishes free from employer coercion. majority sign-up procedures avoid the anti-democratic and inherently coercive anti-union campaigns that are typical of the nlrb election process. see our majority sign-up fact sheet for more information on the problems with nlrb elections.

q: how do majority sign-up procedures protect employees against pressure and coercion by union organizers?

a: it is illegal for anyone to coerce employees to sign a union authorization form. there is no evidence that existing remedies are insufficient to deter or remedy such coercion. nor has pro-union coercion proved to be a problem in the canadian provinces where majority sign-up procedures similar to those of the employee free choice act have been implemented.

q: how can the authenticity of union authorization forms be guaranteed?

a: there is no evidence that falsification of authorization forms is a problem in either the united states or in canada. procedures commonly used to verify authorization forms include comparison of signatures on the form to signatures from the employer's payroll records. signed authorizations are a widely recognized method of choosing legal representatives. the employee free choice act directs the nlrb to develop procedures to establish the authenticity of signed authorization forms.

q: why is there an effort to enact majority sign-up legislation now, when traditional nlrb elections have worked for almost 70 years?

a: actually, the nlrb election process is more recent than card check procedures, and has not been the means by which most collective bargaining relationships have been established in the unites states, either before or after enactment of the national labor relations act. the employee free choice act is necessary today because employers have become increasingly bold in violating employees' rights and violating the law under the nlrb election process. the nlrb process was developed at a time when employer hostility to collective bargaining was much less vehement. in the 1950s and 1960s, employers did not routinely engage in the massive legal and illegal violation of employee rights that is commonplace today.

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here are three successful hospital/union relationships: http://www.americanrightsatwork.org/srb/ldl/2006/

allina hospitals & clinics, adit, iuoe, mna, seiu

in consultation with its employees and their unions, this nonprofit healthcare system has created model initiatives designed to set industry standards in communication, cooperation, and the provision of quality care.

nhs human services, afscme, aft, seiu, spfpa

management and employees of pennsylvania’s leading provider of behavioral

health care work as equal partners in providing care that respects the humanity of every patient.

north philadelphia health system, afscme, seiu

providing workers a free and fair choice to join a union has fostered a collaborative partnership with healthcare employees that translates into high-quality patient care.

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