Nursing as Tax Exempt Profession

Nurses General Nursing

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Because of the huge nursing shortage, should nursing be made a federally tax free profession, as a way of encouraging more people to join it's thinning ranks?

Yes or no?

Thanks for all responses.

Ralph

Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.
I could be 80% convinced.

Scrap the income tax and have a small sales tax that covers the enumerated powers: printing money, providing for military, post offices, etc.

The States are responsible for local infrastructure, roads, power, water, etc.

Given that prospect, I'd gladly vote for such a deal, knowing it means scrapping unsustainable programs of re-distributions of wealth (aka theft) such as EITC, AFDC, medicare, social security, etc.

But, reality is reality, and I'd settle for serious reforms such as scrapping EITC in favor of eliminating income taxes for anybody making less than 40k (and that's a cost-neutral idea), and means testing ss/medicare (if you're rich, congrats, you don't need an 'insurance' payout. Your wealth automatically 'insures' your retirement and health.)

Oh, I know - they PAID into the program. Well, I pay State Farm every month, but I only get something back if I need it. And the payout is, on high average, more than the pay-in. It's not an earned benefit. It's a benefit stolen from current workers. And that works fine, when the ratio of workers/beneficiaries is 18-1 (as it was when the program started). But now, it's 5-1 moving to 3-1. It's simply not an 'earned' benefit; it's a handout - a hand out of MY check.

Just because you were robbed to pay others during YOUR working career doesn't mean you 'earned' the right to steal from others. . . it IS a handout. "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul, can always count on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw

And Roy, I KNOW you know this one: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury." - Author Unknown, but generally attributed to Alexander Tytler.

~faith,

Timothy.

Wow........awesome post, Timothy! Except for the possibility of leaving penniless old people to live out of Dumpsters because there would be no social safety net for them, I agree with you 100% on abolishing the income tax in favor of a national sales tax, means-testing for SS/Medicare, and eliminating social programs that function mainly as a drain on the economy.

Taking this a bit further, I live in Oregon, where there has never been a sales tax of any kind, but our income tax is terribly unfair and I would gladly vote to replace it with a sales tax, which is really the only 'fair' tax there is because EVERYONE pays---residents and out-of-staters alike. It would also guarantee that the rich, who in general buy more, would no longer have any loopholes to slip through, and it would greatly simplify the tax code for all of us.

Tim, I think you've got the makings of a Libertarian.;)

Specializes in Critical Care.
Wow........awesome post, Timothy! Except for the possibility of leaving penniless old people to live out of Dumpsters because there would be no social safety net for them, I agree with you 100% on abolishing the income tax in favor of a national sales tax, means-testing for SS/Medicare, and eliminating social programs that function mainly as a drain on the economy.

Taking this a bit further, I live in Oregon, where there has never been a sales tax of any kind, but our income tax is terribly unfair and I would gladly vote to replace it with a sales tax, which is really the only 'fair' tax there is because EVERYONE pays---residents and out-of-staters alike. It would also guarantee that the rich, who in general buy more, would no longer have any loopholes to slip through, and it would greatly simplify the tax code for all of us.

Tim, I think you've got the makings of a Libertarian.;)

Oh, you couldn't and I WOULDN'T suggest taking back a promise to those that need it.

I WOULD immediately eliminate/phase-out SS/Medicare for anyone w/ more than a half-mil in assets (not counting, say, a 250k allowance for primary residence). If your assets fall below that, re-apply.

And I would no longer make that promise to anyone under, say, 40. BTW, I'm 37. SS take is 15%. Keep 7.5% to offset current enrollees; let me keep 7.5% for my own 401k.

Or better yet. Keep 5% for current enrollees and 10% for me if I'm under 30, and progress the numbers so that by the time I'm 55, it's 10% for current enrollees and 5% to my account. Bigger earnings later in life means more money to fund the current system. Bigger percentages earlier in my working career means more compound interest and more for retirement. Win-win.

Look, with the current 401k system replacing defined benefit retirement plans, there is no reason why I have to pay 15% of my salary to a program that will be bankrupt before my time. There is no reason not to allow me to contribute that to my own 401k. EVEN IF YOU WANT TO FORCE ME TO DO SO, that's a preferable outcome to 'trusting' that I'll have a check.

In fact, more 20-somethings believe in UFOs than SS. Telling.

The program is 80 yrs old. It did not take into account 'compound interest' because it didn't have to: relatively few people collected and then, not for long.

That program, combined w/ medicare, is the 500lb gorilla sitting on our futures.

(And btw, I live in Texas, with an 8.25% sales tax but no state income tax.) I lean libertarian but pull conservative as a political counterbalance so that things fall somewhere in between.

But now I see that I've gone off-topic. Bad, Timothy!

~faith,

Timothy.

I am soooo Cheap I would love to never pay taxes again!!!!

Specializes in Too many to list.
So when you call the police they can not come to your house, and you can not drive your car on the road, you better home school you kids, and if your house catches fire grab your garden hose.....if you do not contribute to the system then do not expect it to help you.

I thought we were speaking of federal income tax, and I don't believe any of the services you mention are paid for in that way. I'm all for home schooling.

And, I may be wrong about this, but I think that gas taxes cover the cost of the roads. At any rate, Hearts, I respect your beliefs, I just don't share them.

We could all argue forever over this type of issue. Personally, I'm just daydreaming about any real change occurring.

I could be 80% convinced.

Scrap the income tax and have a small sales tax that covers the enumerated powers: printing money, providing for military, post offices, etc.

The States are responsible for local infrastructure, roads, power, water, etc.

Given that prospect, I'd gladly vote for such a deal, knowing it means scrapping unsustainable programs of re-distributions of wealth (aka theft) such as EITC, AFDC, medicare, social security, etc.

But, reality is reality, and I'd settle for serious reforms such as scrapping EITC in favor of eliminating income taxes for anybody making less than 40k (and that's a cost-neutral idea), and means testing ss/medicare (if you're rich, congrats, you don't need an 'insurance' payout. Your wealth automatically 'insures' your retirement and health.)

Oh, I know - they PAID into the program. Well, I pay State Farm every month, but I only get something back if I need it. And the payout is, on high average, more than the pay-in. It's not an earned benefit. It's a benefit stolen from current workers. And that works fine, when the ratio of workers/beneficiaries is 18-1 (as it was when the program started). But now, it's 5-1 moving to 3-1. It's simply not an 'earned' benefit; it's a handout - a hand out of MY check.

Just because you were robbed to pay others during YOUR working career doesn't mean you 'earned' the right to steal from others. . . it IS a handout. "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul, can always count on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw

And Roy, I KNOW you know this one: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury." - Author Unknown, but generally attributed to Alexander Tytler.

~faith,

Timothy.

Tim, OMG, I think I'm in love

*Sunny swoons after reading the post* :p

[bANANA]TIMOTHY FOR TEXAS GOVERNOR!

A name you can trust![/bANANA]

Specializes in ED, CTSurg, IVTeam, Oncology.

Thread Hijack? And some have accused me of being troll bait LOL...

Hmm... I asked the question of whether making the nursing profession as federally tax exempt would lure more people to (or return to) the field. But it seems that many here have decided to take it upon themselves to delve into, and discuss the history and or fairness of taxation. Though I certainly understand the passion that the idea of taxation generates, this was not the question. So it would be helpful if everyone would please stick to just answering the topic question being asked.

So I'll ask again, would taking away the tax burden from nursing cause more people to consider it a profession worth exploring, or a profession worth returning to?

YES or NO?

Thank you

Ralph

Thread Hijack? And some have accused me of being troll bait LOL...

Hmm... I asked the question of whether making the nursing profession as federally tax exempt would lure more people to (or return to) the field. But it seems that many here have decided to take it upon themselves to delve into, and discuss the history and or fairness of taxation. Though I certainly understand the passion that the idea of taxation generates, this was not the question. So it would be helpful if everyone would please stick to just answering the topic question being asked....

Dude, ¡cálmate!

This was only a minor hijack! This happens on allnurses all the time. We are an inqusitive and wordy bunch. If we see an empty soapbox, we jump on it!:p

It was a group of regular posters that took the time to answer. That they posted at all is a compliment. Hang around a while and you'll be as preachy as the rest of us!:roll

So I'll ask again, would taking away the tax burden from nursing cause more people to consider it a profession worth exploring, or a profession worth returning to?

YES or NO?

I think it would attract a few new people into the profession, yes. A few financial savy people would see the benefit, but lets face it the vast majority wouldn't have a clue what it meant. The tax code is already so bloated that I'd bet money few outside the profession would notice.

It might also lure back a few nurse who left the profession. Since most of them left for reasons other than money (pt ratios, toxic work environments, etc) a tax incentive, no matter how big, might not be enough.

Specializes in Critical Care.
Thread Hijack? And some have accused me of being troll bait LOL...

Hmm... I asked the question of whether making the nursing profession as federally tax exempt would lure more people to (or return to) the field. But it seems that many here have decided to take it upon themselves to delve into, and discuss the history and or fairness of taxation. Though I certainly understand the passion that the idea of taxation generates, this was not the question. So it would be helpful if everyone would please stick to just answering the topic question being asked.

So I'll ask again, would taking away the tax burden from nursing cause more people to consider it a profession worth exploring, or a profession worth returning to?

Discussing taxation in a thread about the benefits of relaxing taxation is not all that far off topic.

You asked if nurses should be given a 'tax break' and the discussion slanted for awhile to the propriety of taxing ANYONE, nurses or otherwise, at our current levels.

Any good discussion of any issue spends some time challenging the basic preconceptions of the issue. For example, go look at the multiple threads on medical MJ use and see how often those threads spend at least some of their times discussing the legalization of recreational drugs, generally.

But, even being 'off topic' I did spend some time explaining how I thought your idea would destabilize the current tax system and, as such, the TPTB would never sign off on such a deal.

The current system is a 'voluntary' system in that it would be practically impossible to enforce mass refusals to pay. Enforcement now is primarily the ink that generates from the 'examples' made out of a few. Believe me, EVERY time the IRS reads about somebody going to jail because they underpaid their taxes by 14 cents, they LOVE it. Why? Because the public gets the message: wow! I should pay my taxes.

The tax code is THE major tool that empowers Congress. Most of the lobbying and therefore campaign donations deal w/ arcane provisions of that code. To date, all the 'specific' exemptions in the code deal w/ very arcane rules that apply to very few people. As such, those rules fall 'below' the public radar. Oh sure, we generally know about the 'loopholes' of the rich, but rarely about the specifics, or the specifics affect so few people as to have no bearing on my life.

Most 'exemptions' for the masses are just that: applicable to all. Homeowners dedections, chartible and work/medical related deductions, etc. At the moment you start granting specific exemptions to the masses, the public, just like those on this thread, will start questioning the basic assumptions of taxation. I mean, how is it fair that THEY get exemptions and not ME?

And that would lead people to say, to heck with it, if they don't have to pay, neither do I. The problem with ANY non-compliance is that, once it starts rolling, it takes on a life of its own. Once people see enough non-compliance that they no longer need or have to believe the stories about going to jail over 14 cents, then the entire system crumbles at its foundations.

First, I don't think tax exemption would create any more nurses than we are creating now with the waiting lists that already exist. It might pull SOME nurses back into the profession, but not enough. 2nd, I don't think the gov't will ever seriously consider specific total exemptions for any mass group.

But IF the gov't DID consider such exemptions, it wouldn't target nurses GENERALLY, but would be tailored to nursing INSTRUCTORS. Get more people to migrate to teaching, and you could take great strides towards increasing nursing numbers.

~faith,

Timothy.

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
I beg your pardon. Just because I'm new here doesn't mean that I'm trolling. Your DTR (Deep Troll Reflexes) is perhaps a bit hyperactive.

Ralph

Perhaps. I can be open-minded about that. I'll suspend my judgement for a while until I see your future contributions to this community.

We get our share of trolls and trouble-makers around here. If you are not one of them ... I apologize and welcome you into the allnurses community.

llg

Specializes in Management, Surgery, Recovery Room.

Heck, no! I like being a nurse because everyone seems to love nurses! But if everyone found out that nurses didn't have to pay taxes, we'd all be hated!

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