Jahi McMath "What does it mean to die?"

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Interesting read....

What Does It Mean to Die? | The New Yorker

Before having her tonsils removed, Jahi McMath, a thirteen-year-old African-American girl from Oakland, California, asked her doctor, Frederick Rosen, about his credentials. "How many times have you done this surgery?" Hundreds of times, Rosen said. "Did you get enough sleep last night?" He'd slept fine, he responded. Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, encouraged Jahi to keep asking questions. "It's your body," she said. "Feel free to ask that man whatever you want."

Specializes in Geriatrics, Home Health.
But does the reaction of the hospital staff change the outcome in any way??

It certainly changes the family's willingness to accept the outcome.

I can't believe anyone is still helping this family maintain and publicize this charade. It's so sad. They should let her go (and the state should certainly not be paying for her care). I'm disappointed in TNY for publishing this. I notice the story left out details from her original surgery, like the reports of the family feeding her fast food post-operatively, contrary to the physicians' dietary orders, and just makes it sound like the providers couldn't be bothered to do a good job and something just mysteriously went wrong.

I, too, am disappointed with TNY on their coverage of this story. One of the "experts" they interviewed is very controversial (I can't remember which one and I don't want to use up one of my 10 precious free monthly articles to find out.) The author absolutely should have made this clear. I was completely unaware of the other details you mention like the family feeding her fast food post-op. Could you link the articles you read? After reading all of your comments, I realize I got much less of the story from TNY than I had even thought.

Ugly rumor and nothing more. Supposedly someone saw her being fed a hamburger in ICU. There's no official documentation of such a bizarre thing. Just rumors in internet forums. Some people have demonized the mother saying she's just looking for money and that she posted pictures on social media with designer purses. I would think professionals would be above such judgements. I guess the only thing that matters at this point is whether or not brain activity is there. From the latest scans it seems like there is.

Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care.
Ugly rumor and nothing more. Supposedly someone saw her being fed a hamburger in ICU. There's no official documentation of such a bizarre thing. Just rumors in internet forums. Some people have demonized the mother saying she's just looking for money and that she posted pictures on social media with designer purses. I would think professionals would be above such judgements. I guess the only thing that matters at this point is whether or not brain activity is there. From the latest scans it seems like there is.

How would we even know if there was official documentation? The hospital wouldn't be able to release it if it did exist.

I have been thinking about this case and others like it for some time now and I have come to the conclusion that these issues are only going to become more complicated as time goes on, for a number of reasons:

1. Technology is advancing rapidly, and without much regulation. The time is approaching when the body could be sustained almost indefinitely. At the same time, there are more and more discoveries about the spectrum of consciousness and minimally conscious states. View the story of Martin Pistorius here:

Martin Pistorius: How my mind came back to life — and no one knew | TED Talk

2. Resources are not increasing at the same rate as technological advances and knowledge. The monetary and human cost of keeping Jahi McMath alive is exorbitant. What else could the state of NJ do with $150,00 a week? With 168 nurse hours? Is it even ethical to ask the question when a human life is involved?

3. Human emotion is not logical or rational; but must be considered when formulating any sort of policy regarding these matters.

It is a very real possibility that in the not-too-distant future, nurses will quite literally be deciding who lives and who dies. How are we, as a profession, going to prepare for this?

Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care.
Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care.
Also from the article...

When Jahi arrived in New Jersey...the chief of pediatric critical care at St. Peter's wrote in her records that there was "no hope of brain recovery." Nailah said, "I didn't have a clue. I had really thought that I would get her a feeding tube and a tracheotomy, and she would just get up, and we would be good."

You had no clue. Really?

Ugly rumor and nothing more. Supposedly someone saw her being fed a hamburger in ICU. There's no official documentation of such a bizarre thing. Just rumors in internet forums. Some people have demonized the mother saying she's just looking for money and that she posted pictures on social media with designer purses. I would think professionals would be above such judgements. I guess the only thing that matters at this point is whether or not brain activity is there. From the latest scans it seems like there is.

Everything I've read about this case supports the hospital's assertion that family feed the girl a hamburger. If it was a lie, I'm sure the family would be loudly denying it.

I do agree with the bio-ethicist in the article who was quoted saying that situations like this amount to desecration of a corpse.

There is nothing in this article that changes my original opinion that this is a sad story about an undereducated family who cannot emotionally come to terms with the tragic death of their daughter.

Trying to twist this into a story where nursing staff's inactivity and inattention contributed to the death is absurd. Every single description of Jahi's post-operative symptoms were told from the point of view of the girls medically uneducated family. Sorry, I'm inclined to believe the multiple registered nurses and physicians who assessed the girl in the days following her surgery.

I think it's pretty disgusting how some people on here have latched on to silly nsubstantiated rumors like "They gave her hamburger" and resorted to taking trash about the family. It's a distraction from the issue at hand.

I don't believe she will recover but this isn't a dead girl. The experts said that her organs, (including her brain) would have long ago liquefied.

For those attacking the family, I wonder who would change positions with them for even 10 million dollars? Taking care of a severely disabled loved one 24/7 is no picnic.

Whoa!

I knew I was not going crazy when I wrote I take care of children in similar position as Jahi(I am in NJ,so I believe these families just kept it quiet).

But the argument could be made is that even if she was not dead,money is not finite.

I am pretty sure Jahi is getting OT,PT,and nursing of course 24/7.

She also might be attending school,and no i am not kidding.

What if these children are taking resources from children who do have chance of walking and talking,etc?

As a home nurse,i do ponder these things almost daily.

I do agree with the bio-ethicist in the article who was quoted saying that situations like this amount to desecration of a corpse.

There is nothing in this article that changes my original opinion that this is a sad story about an undereducated family who cannot emotionally come to terms with the tragic death of their daughter.

Trying to twist this into a story where nursing staff's inactivity and inattention contributed to the death is absurd. Every single description of Jahi's post-operative symptoms were told from the point of view of the girls medically uneducated family. Sorry, I'm inclined to believe the multiple registered nurses and physicians who assessed the girl in the days following her surgery.

I doubt that.

Grandma is an Lpn.

Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
I doubt that.

Grandma is an Lpn.

Doesn't mean Grandma knows how to be a nurse in a PICU with patients who have undergone major through surgery. Tonsillectomy, adenoidectomy, uvulopalatoplasty was the full surgery if I recall correctly. I'm an RN in surgery, and even I wouldn't know what I'm doing with a patient in the post-op phase beyond PACU

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