Jahi McMath "What does it mean to die?"

[Christy1019]

Interesting read....

What Does It Mean to Die? | The New Yorker

Before having her tonsils removed, Jahi McMath, a thirteen-year-old African-American girl from Oakland, California, asked her doctor, Frederick Rosen, about his credentials. "How many times have you done this surgery?" Hundreds of times, Rosen said. "Did you get enough sleep last night?" He'd slept fine, he responded. Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, encouraged Jahi to keep asking questions. "It's your body," she said. "Feel free to ask that man whatever you want."

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Did you read the article in its entirety? A good 1/3 of the article was not about Jahi at all, but rather about the history of the idea of "brain death" and how it has been forced to evolve over time as technology has advances. It's about how the world's leading medical experts on neurology and bioethics came together several times over the last 40 years to assess, and reassess, how brain death should be defined. And how, when faced with new information that contradicts their strongly held beliefs, some of those experts chose to deny the existence of validity of the information, and others chose to accept and embrace the new information, have epiphanies, and weave this new information into the framework of what they believe to be "true."

Frankly, I thought it was a beautiful article about the evolution of science, and the Jahi part, while fascinating, was a secondary story, IMO.

I thought this quote from the article was particularly poignant:

Yeah, but you have to dig through all the bs to find the gold. There was waaaay too much bs.

[Emergent, RN]

I don't like all the racist finger pointing in the article so couldn't finish. There certainly was some liability by the medical team based on the inaction regarding post op bleeding, but I highly doubt it was motivated by race.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

It was v. one sided & made it hard to read. Why wild O want to read an article that's full of lies?

Someone was tired & shouldn't have been posting

"It was very one sided & made it hard to read. Why would I want to read an article full of lies?"

[elkpark]

Did you read the article in its entirety? A good 1/3 of the article was not about Jahi at all, but rather about the history of the idea of "brain death" and how it has been forced to evolve over time as technology has advances. It's about how the world's leading medical experts on neurology and bioethics came together several times over the last 40 years to assess, and reassess, how brain death should be defined. And how, when faced with new information that contradicts their strongly held beliefs, some of those experts chose to deny the existence of validity of the information, and others chose to accept and embrace the new information, have epiphanies, and weave this new information into the framework of what they believe to be "true."

Frankly, I thought it was a beautiful article about the evolution of science, and the Jahi part, while fascinating, was a secondary story, IMO.

I thought this quote from the article was particularly poignant:

I did read the article in its entirety. I went back and read it (all the way through) a second time before posting the second time. Still not impressed.

And 2/3 of the article, by your estimate, was "a secondary story"? It reads to me like a publicity/advocacy piece about the McMaths dressed up with some musings about the history of the concept of brain death.

[TAKOO01, BSN]

Of course, I'm not sure if race had anything to do wi th this case, but here is a quote from the article :

A large body of research has shown that black patients are less likely to get appropriate medications and surgeries than white ones are, regardless of their insurance or education level, and more likely to receive undesirable medical interventions, like amputations...

With that sort of societal history, it is not entirely far-fetched that race may possibly have been a factor. Only the family and medical professionals involved really know the truth.

[EaglesWings21, ASN, RN]

I read the article and all this proves is that maybe everything we know about brain death is not concise, but if Jahi does have the conscious part of her mind but not her brains stem her suffering is only prolonged by keeping her on life support. This family is still crazy.

[Not_A_Hat_Person, RN]

I don't think so. They discuss the whole fiasco & point the finger at all the doctors & nurses. We know what really happened & the article should put what really happened.

The only people who know "what really happened" were there, or have access to Jahi's medical records.

[Julius Seizure]

From the article....

Sandra [Jahi's grandmother] said she sometimes wonders, "If the hospital had been more compassionate, would we have fought so much?"

Hmm. When I read that, it sounds to me like the grandmother is saying that they would have withdrawn life support on Jahi, even believing she was not brain dead...if they weren't busy fighting with the hospital. Doesn't that kind of make Jahi a pawn?

[Not_A_Hat_Person, RN]

To me, it sounds like she's saying they would have been willing to pull the plug on Jahi if the staff hadn't blown off the family's concerns about her post-op bleeding. The family fought so hard because they no longer trust the hospital.

Studies have also shown that the medical system tends to mistreat women, nonwhites, and fat people. Jahi was all 3.

[elkpark]

To me, it sounds like she's saying they would have been willing to pull the plug on Jahi if the staff hadn't blown off the family's concerns about her post-op bleeding. The family fought so hard because they no longer trust the hospital.

Studies have also shown that the medical system tends to mistreat women, nonwhites, and fat people. Jahi was all 3.

But does the reaction of the hospital staff change the outcome in any way??

[VNurse30]

I think it's pretty disgusting how some people on here have latched on to silly nsubstantiated rumors like "They gave her hamburger" and resorted to taking trash about the family. It's a distraction from the issue at hand.

I don't believe she will recover but this isn't a dead girl. The experts said that her organs, (including her brain) would have long ago liquefied.

For those attacking the family, I wonder who would change positions with them for even 10 million dollars? Taking care of a severely disabled loved one 24/7 is no picnic.

[VNurse30]

A good 1/3 of the article was not about Jahi at all, but rather about the history of the idea of "brain death" and how it has been forced to evolve over time as technology has advances. It's about how the world's leading medical experts on neurology and bioethics came together several times over the last 40 years to assess, and reassess, how brain death should be defined. And how, when faced with new information that contradicts their strongly held beliefs, some of those experts chose to deny the existence of validity of the information, and others chose to accept and embrace the new information, have epiphanies, and weave this new information into the framework of what they believe to be "true."

Frankly, I thought it was a beautiful article about the evolution of science, and the Jahi part, while fascinating, was a secondary story, IMO.

I also found this article to be very thought provoking. Would I want to be kept alive like that? Not so sure but I think we all should have the choice for ourselves and our families. I don't know what her condition is but I've taken care of children who are severely disabled with multiple other issues. Children who will never walk, talk, or eat in their own. Who's to say that they don't deserve a chance to live out whatever life they have? This whole situation is sad and I'm hugging my little ones even closer tonight.