Nursing educators- salaries

subee, MSN, CRNA · Sep 21, 2006

I'm actually starting a post-master's program for nursing ed. but plan to do this after I start collecting social security (over 30 yrs experience) because collecting SS at the same time is the only way one could afford to teach at all. And I don't plan on working more than 20 hrs. a week (altogether) because my patient for b.s. has thinned so much. I don't know what the answer is except to get the MD's to speak up in public about the dangers of being hospitalized.

judymai · Sep 21, 2006

As a mastered prepared nurse educator with 23 years of clinical experience, I am currently making $41K a year as an associate professor of nursing at an Oregon rural community college ADN program. This is my third and, most likely, my final year as a nursing professor due to the low pay and demanding work load.
Our new graduates start at $65K at the local community hospital. Our faculty to student ratio in the classroom is 1:63 while the clinical ratio is 1:10, meeting the state requirement. As a full time nursing faculty, in addition to classroom teaching, I am also expected to mentor a 2nd year clinical group, with 2 hours of lab time and 10 hours of clinical supervision.
I am exhausted working every evening and weekend grading papers, projects and doing research to keep current with the latest evidenced-based practices in nursing.
In Oregon, the professional nurses organization has an initiative to support increasing the numbers of registered nurses graduating from programs in order to meet the ever increasing demand for qualified nurses in all fields of nursing.
As a nation and profession, we are in dire straights to recruit and retain qualified nurse educators in our nursing programs. If we don't demand comparable market value salaries for nurse educators, we, as a nation of consumers can expect the quality and availability of nursing care to dramatically diminish on a yearly basis.

Hey berylmac! I am also teaching in Oregon. I must admit to curiosity about where you are. I share your frustration about salaries and workload. I have to laugh when people assume we have weekends, holidays, and summers off -- I am just returning to the fall schedule and found I spent nearly as many hours over the summer as I do during the "school year". I also spend many evenings and weekends preparing content to teach and grading papers.At times my family suffers because I am so exhausted!

It's also true that within a year our graduates make more than I do. So..... why do I keep doing this (going on 15 years)? I love the challenge of shaping nursing for the future. I can only hope that the impact I have now will improve the respect of nursing (and particularly nurse educators).

scribblerpnp · Oct 9, 2006

I think that the main reason nurse educators get such low pay is that our pay isn't compared to a nurse's pay, but to a faculty member's pay. I work in a university and took a 30,000/year pay CUT to be an educator (going from full-time NP to educator). But, compared to someone over in the math dept or english dept with a master's degree, I'm making fair money! Think of it this way, if the Math dept or any other dept found out that the university was OK with nursing dept faulty members with a comparative degree (comparative meaning masters or doctorate) making 30,000 dollars a year more then they are, there very well may be a riot. The university looks at what other faculty members make, not what nurses make when deciding salary. Sure, it completely sucks and it definately won't help attract educators, but it ISN'T fair for me to make so much more than another faculty member with the same years of experience and schooling.

kaydee rn · Oct 9, 2006

Thanks for your post. I do think it is a concern of college administrators regarding so called "equity in pay". However the issue in our department is that we are not paid one for one for labs and clinicals and as such we work more hours than the say english faculty but get paid the same. Labs and clinical should be compensated the same as theory classes. We certainly are at a disadvantage considering the number of lab and clinical hours we must have. There is the real disparity!

scribblerpnp · Oct 9, 2006

Well, now that IS unfair. (I must not have read the posts very well). Where I work, the clinicals are factored in. Such as I carry 12 hours- I teach two three hour courses and have one 6 hour clinical. But the pay is terrible. There is a local ADN program run through a hospital and those instructors get about 20,000 more a year than I do (but they also work 50+ hours a week and only get 10 weeks of off time a year (I average about 16).

allnurses Guide · Oct 10, 2006

When I spoke to the director at our local community ADN program, she explained because the title is "instructor" for the non-tenured, non-lecturing clinical educators, the pay is the same for all other instructors teaching any subject at the college. No taking into account clinical hours, danger, liablity, etc.

I make more with my BSN as a staff nurse than I will teaching there with my (future) MSN. :trout: The online job offering salary is about half of what I make now, and that being only responsible for myself, not students.

bookwormom · Oct 10, 2006

QUOTE:

"When you phrase the question to the search committee about salary, and you want to include other educators at the institution in the Departments of Biology, Journalism, or English, just remember to ask them how many of these Profs have devoted years and money to obtaining a Ph.D.

As the brother of an Ivy league educator, I can report that that, 'D', after their names increases thier salary."

I was recently surprised to find that a nursing educator colleague with a PhD, doing research in our state university is making $43,000/year. She is close to retirement, so this represents the rewards of a lifetime of nursing. That amount is about what I make with a MS in nursing at a state college. I am working on a doctorate myself and don't anticipate a pay raise.

Someone mentioned that other faculty would be upset if they found out that nursing faculty were making more. There is already disparity among disciplines. I believe business faculty have the reputation for the highest salaries. Athletic faculty also do well, but their salaries may be supported by multiple sources.

Still, I like teaching, and there are very few options in my area unless I am willing to drive huge distances.

gateslacker · Oct 11, 2006

Hello!

I am new here and sought this forum because I am currently enrolled in a Master's program with the intention of teaching nursing. What an eye opener! It makes me wonder if it will all be worth it in the end. This is my first semester. Should I stop now before I have invested a great deal of time and money? I am one of those who believes that money isn't everything but also recognizes that you have to make a living. I am in the process of doing a research paper regarding my future role and had hoped to meet other nurse educators and possibly "interview" a nurse educator for this paper. (Being online and in a rural area makes meeting nurse educators in person difficult.) Is there anything that can be considered a positive aspect of being a nurse educator? What could entice someone to take a cut in pay? :sofahider

scribblerpnp · Oct 11, 2006

For me, here are the enticements for taking a cut-in-pay:

1. I get summers off, no holidays, a month at Christmas, and no weekends.

2. Even as full-time faculty, I work less than 40 hours a week at school, (but I do spend time grading papers at home- this doesn't bother me since I can do it with my family around, watching TV, etc)

3. The benefits are better than working in a private office (but not as good as a hospital)

4. My retirement is better. I can retire in 30 years at 90 percent of my top five years of salary.

5. They know the pay isn't that good, and they make sure we have time to work outside the program (I have a part-time nurse practitioner job and teach at another college on the side)

6. My hours are pretty flexible. Usually I can work my office hours so I have one day off in the week and am finished by noon on Friday.

7. The university will pay for my doctorate.

8. All that stuff about teaching future nurses!

Over-all I carry three jobs, but still rarely work over a 40 hour work week, and MAYBE an 8 hour work week in the summer and during breaks. My salary is in the lover 40,000's at the college I work for full time, but with my PRN jobs, I usually make a total income of about 62,000/year (which in the area I live is only slightly less than what a full time NP makes, so I'm not doing all that badly.)

gateslacker · Oct 12, 2006

For me, here are the enticements for taking a cut-in-pay:
1. I get summers off, no holidays, a month at Christmas, and no weekends.
2. Even as full-time faculty, I work less than 40 hours a week at school, (but I do spend time grading papers at home- this doesn't bother me since I can do it with my family around, watching TV, etc)
3. The benefits are better than working in a private office (but not as good as a hospital)
4. My retirement is better. I can retire in 30 years at 90 percent of my top five years of salary.
5. They know the pay isn't that good, and they make sure we have time to work outside the program (I have a part-time nurse practitioner job and teach at another college on the side)
6. My hours are pretty flexible. Usually I can work my office hours so I have one day off in the week and am finished by noon on Friday.
7. The university will pay for my doctorate.
8. All that stuff about teaching future nurses!
Over-all I carry three jobs, but still rarely work over a 40 hour work week, and MAYBE an 8 hour work week in the summer and during breaks. My salary is in the lover 40,000's at the college I work for full time, but with my PRN jobs, I usually make a total income of about 62,000/year (which in the area I live is only slightly less than what a full time NP makes, so I'm not doing all that badly.)

Thank you, scribblern. I thought, surely, there must be some positives or no one would be doing it. I work at a hospital and the benefits are rather so-so. But, I live in a rural area and this hospital is closer to me so that makes a difference in my mind. Now, I just have to get over that fear of public speaking......:imbar

As for the "interview", if anyone is interested in talking with me, please let me know and I can e-mail you off list or enter a chat or whatever you would prefer. I would be extremely appreciative of any insight and information anyone has to offer!!:bowingpur I suppose this is what you would call going all the way with an online class! LOL!

redsoxlisa9 · Oct 24, 2006

Hi Gateslacker,

I echo scribblern's post. I make mid fifties at a small-ish program, but I'm able to keep enough hours/week at my old hospital job to make close to 100,000 this year (its a lot of work, and I'm thinking of going per diem at the hospital). But, the time off is a huge perk, and if you feel the need to supplement your income, there are plenty of hospitals that would hire you for perdiem. I think it benefits the students, too, to have someone in front of the class teaching who pulled an eight hour shift the evening before and can relate 'real world' stories. Good luck, and don't let the salaries scare you. (believe me, they are about to get a whole lot better!

Hello!
I am new here and sought this forum because I am currently enrolled in a Master's program with the intention of teaching nursing. What an eye opener! It makes me wonder if it will all be worth it in the end. This is my first semester. Should I stop now before I have invested a great deal of time and money? I am one of those who believes that money isn't everything but also recognizes that you have to make a living. I am in the process of doing a research paper regarding my future role and had hoped to meet other nurse educators and possibly "interview" a nurse educator for this paper. (Being online and in a rural area makes meeting nurse educators in person difficult.) Is there anything that can be considered a positive aspect of being a nurse educator? What could entice someone to take a cut in pay? :sofahider

lovingpecola · Nov 2, 2006

This is all very enlightening. Thanks so much to all for sharing!

LP