Retaliation for voicing concern over unsafe pratices

Keysnurse2008 · Dec 15, 2005

Rns for unity.....it is eye opening. I thought...whenthis happened to me.....that it was like an isolated incident.I have been so niave.I didnt realize that thousands of nurses...countrywide...have been the victim of similar actions.I have heard stories that have broken my heart,...and "opened my eyes".Stories of tenured nurses who have been booted out bc they have topped out in salary...and are replaced with new grads.I love new grads in a workplace....but not when the ratios are 9 new grads to 1 experienced nurse.Then...when your administration...is so "budget minded" that they staff like this...and dont look at the high acquity patient population and the IMMENSE need to maintain a safer experienced-new grad ratio....i Think its just unsafe too.When nurses who witness unsafe practitioners , be it physicians or nurses , and they do NOT notify their risk mgmt dept ...whose fault is it when a sentinel event occurs? Is it just the incompetent pratictioner?Is it the manager who had been told time and time again by nsg staff that this pratictioner was unsafe..is he/she at fault also? When healthcare turns a deaf ear to complaints over issues that can jeopardize the life of a patient ...then that healthcare facility has assummed all legal responsibilty for whatever actions or inactions both that practitioner and that NM leave in their wake.The end result is.....friendships can be friendships...in and outside of the workplace.....but when ya step thru those doors and clock in.....your allegiance has changed.You might not like having to speak up and do the right thing...but you have a duty too.Think.....how can you look that family in the eye.....when that physician has to tell them that their daughter, son, child, husband, wife,mother...is dead....and you know ...you know...what is one of the root causes for that death. Can you live with your decision to remain silent? In a ICU setting...in any hospital setting....your loytalties should lie..first with the patient.All this just makes me sad.

Town & Country · Dec 16, 2005

I am legally protected under several pt protection and retaliatory discharge whistleblower statutes...

It may be there on paper but when push comes to shove, it isn't going to hold water....didn't you say that they had already fabricated "reasons" to dismiss you?

That's the way "at-will" states work it.....

jodyangel, RN · Dec 16, 2005

Yep. You're so right. Because nurses just leave and get new jobs without making the Wrong Right..these practices flourish.

Sunstreak...I have already "moved on with my life".....but...let me put it to you like this.
1.If you were walking down the street and got mugged, your money stolen, beaten up...and then you could prove who it was that actually mugged you.Would you "just let it go".I bet not.So...even though...I already have another great job...it doesnt change the fact that I was still "mugged".And as far as what the nurse manager thinks or doesnt think........its kinda like this. She ...is ....a....fabricator..a liar.She has left that hospital ina tight legal position....bc.....I audiotaped. So...that hospitals atty....is going to have to explain to the judge/jury ......"well....yes....she was lying when she said that...but now she is telling the truth.......yeah...we know she lied about what day this alledgedly occurred on.....but please believe me now....shes telling the truth". Sunstreak....my family and I lost my retirement, benefits etc...all bc......I was "mugged"....so...even though I have "moved on"...people and facilities have to learn for every action there is a reaction...and we all must answer for our actions.While some hc facilities may have made nurses go straight to work without orientation..it is not safe.Only "questionable" nurses would be willing to accept a position with no orientation...thats kinda like playing russian roulette with your nsg liscence....and if you accept a position with no orientation....then my friend... in the game of management "tag" you will always be "it"...you will be their scapegoat.And...in regards to endangering patients in a icu ....there is no excuse for it.I hope you have taken additional malpratice insurance out....bc...unless you are "just talking" ( said jokingly ) you will eventually need it( said seriously).We all have to answer for our inactions and actions.Nsg isnt a job...like fast food.....you deal with sick people....and if you dont have a strong ethical and moral "core"...then you dont belong in a ICU.BC..if ya want a job....where you are not "accountable"...go to work at mcdonalds. Nurses can now be charged criminally for their inactions and actions....manslaughter....negligent homicide. Dont let someone force ya into a job with no orientation. It doesnt make you "superman" bc you can function one day without a sentinel event in a job with no orientation...it just makes you reckless with your liscence and a liability issue....you worked too hard 4 that!

TsunamiKim · Dec 16, 2005

I was incredulous when my Hospital got away with cheating, lying and fraud, but they did. Those Government agencies, accreditation organizations and advocacy groups all fell for those shallow lies, hook line and sinker. They never even questioned weather "the Best Hospital in America " was telling the truth; they just had to be, right. Then there was the Union that took 8months to get hold of solicited letters of accusation while I went to hearings completely ignorant of the actual charges against me. They couldn't even gain access to my pay files, let alone anything from my personal files, so I was fighting blind, terrific Union. Meanwhile EEOC and other agencies could view all these fake documents behind my back that I was excluded access to. I was so thrilled to have a Union, not quite.

Our great Union had negotiated the minimal increment of pay increase while signing off on allowing the Hospital to pay off Vacation time at 50% if someone was fired. This proved a really great incentive to fire an employee just before they were due to go on Holiday; I was fired just three days before a scheduled Christmas vacation. That little "benefit package" care of my Union cost me an extra $1200 when I was fired; that, after two weeks forced time off that the Union did nothing about. The Hospital had made a total mess of my pay files and still owed me money when I was fired, but we just kissed that money goodbye, thank you Union!

On several occasions I asked my Union if I was going into binding or a non binding Arbitration, they said it was not binding. They totally misled me and I did not discover that I had been in binding Arbitration until over a year after the hearing. My Union Lawyer obviously did not bother to read anything I presented to him in writing or he might have let me know this crucial fact. This Lawyer told me exactly what I could and couldn't say at my hearing, leading me to feel I was entering into the Hearing "bound and gagged." The major thrust of his totally incompetent defense was the astounding premise that "the very bad thing that I did, was not really so bad."

When the Director of Surgical Nursing very obviously told blatant lies under oath concocting a harrowing tale of an incident that simply never took place, he never even bothered calling the witnesses who would have refuted her testimony and proved that this top level Manager was deliberately lying under oath to persecute a subordinate. This was very important catching them in a very obvious lie, not just a mistake about the date, a vindictive fabrication in their testimony. Did it help? No, because even my own Lawyer sold me down the river. Big, powerful Hospital's have money, they have power and they can buy any kind of truth or untruth they want.

I would have handled the Arbitration 300 times better without the interference of the Union and their incompetent and unethical Lawyer. Contrary to all of my written statements their Lawyer put my guilt in writing no less than three times in his summation which he then withheld from me for over a year until the ruling against me was final. It would have taken an act of God to win against those odds, so of course I lost. The Union Lawyer's conduct was so appallingly negligent that it bordered on downright unethical behavior. My Hospital must have loved that guy and it is difficult to believe he did not represent them rather than me. I was even contemplating making a complaint to the bar association, because he had failed to inform me of the binding Arbitration and his putting my guilt in writing so that I lost my case. However by this time I was desperately scrambling to keep my house and nearing the end of my resources. Within a few months I left the United States broken and destitute.

After this experience no one can convince me that America actually has a justice system. The moral of the story is, do not assume that because you are in the right you will prevail, I doubt it. Do not assume that because they have nothing to charge you with, you are OK; no, they will make it up. Do not assume that if they try to concoct lies they will be caught out by their inconsistencies; no, HR, Compliance Lines, Risk Management, outside agencies, even the Nursing Board, you name it, they will all bend over backwards to make it all go away for your Hospital. They never really want to investigate patient safety concerns; while they offer a smokescreen of respectability, their whole existence is a complete sham. You will be left totally decimated, collateral damage, they have no mercy; what is one wrecked life compared with upholding their precious reputation. That's what I faced, I only hope you fare better.

I am sorry if this sounds so negative it has been another devastating day for me here. I have been fighting against the odds to complete the NIFA program to become a First Surgical assist, but the odds against me are almost insurmountable. My Books are left with my ex-husband in Massachusetts, the replacement for my ailing, failing laptop is in Maryland. I am trying to negotiate use of the medical library at my local Hospital, but I am not an NHS employee and at it will cost me. I cannot work in a UK Hospital and I am now subsisting on unemployment. I cannot do any clinical time in a UK OR as the job categories are different here.

I did some of my clinical time in the OR of Cut Nyak Dhien Hospital while serving as a volunteer out in Aceh Province Indonesia as a medical volunteer following the tsunami; I was there for 6months. The trouble is my documentation was not complete before I left and I have failed in my attempts to contacting the Surgeon I worked under at the Meulaboh Hospital since I left. Getting word to him in a combat zone where there is no mail, no phone and the best contact is e-mail at the PACTEC tent in the UN Compound is challenging to say the least.

I want to go back out to Aceh to complete an ambitious project I began while I was there, but no NGO will take me on with my background of being fired and the suspicious gap in my employment record. This is why the efforts to clear my name are so important to me as the past still threatens to sabotage my future even as an NGO volunteer. I am looking into getting myself back out there at my own expense if I have to as I can at least continue my OR clinicals while I resume my humanitarian work; it beats living on unemployment. I hear some NGO people talking about how they are trying to find ways to squander the donated tsunami money, while my zero credibility stops me from obtaining funding for an emergency preparedness plan that is vital to the people of Meulaboh. I feel so despondent.

I have missed an important deadline with my NIFA program and I will now have to reenroll. However, I do not have the money to even contemplate such an expense anytime soon, so I am probably out of the program for good. As I said this was not a good day for me. I dread this time of year now as I must relive the gut wrenching memories of my public humiliation at dismissal and the ultimate loss of my home in the US; it all went down over Christmas. I can really empathize with the tsunami victims as I know how it feels to loose everything you hold dear, at least I have my family. I had hoped that with the advanced qualification I might move past the damage to my career, but that looks remote now.

Be so careful in your dealings with your Hospital, they will probably fight a long and dirty fight as they do not care if you loose your reputation and your livelihood. Be very well prepared for the tough fight ahead,

Fair Winds & Following Seas, TsunamiKim.

Keysnurse2008 · Dec 16, 2005

It may be there on paper but when push comes to shove, it isn't going to hold water....didn't you say that they had already fabricated "reasons" to dismiss you?
That's the way "at-will" states work it.....

well......no...it really isnt the way it works. You need to investigate the ratios of how courts take this.The court system leans towards the employee 99 % of the time. The problem is that these HC facilities usually either make the employee feels so horrible they are willing to forget things..or they are embarassed.But...no sunstreak....there you are wrong.In the cases that have valid concrete proof ,..then they side with the employee.Do they return to their previous job?Generally no...bc....very few would even want to.

The majority of nurses really want to do a good job. But there are a few ...that just dont care.....they are callous and irresponsible. In your thread I always read such underlying hostility...and I really do not understand it.This thread is about nurses that have been the victim of retaliation,...and if this isnt something that interests you....or that has touched you..I dont understand "why" you are here. I may be wrong...but from your posts that I have read you have rarely supported a fellow nurse on these threads. And ...to thoroughly understand what happened to me...Id have to give details.I have no intention of doing that.This post is about all kinds of retaliation...not just retaliatory discharge.It is about patients rights...employment rights...etc.Most everyone here is interested in either sharing their stories and how they handled it...or can give insight on how they feel the nurse can work their way thru a problem.This thread is really not about my case...bc....I know the strength of my case ...and my life doesnt depend on whether I win it or not.....but...my ethical belief system makes it a huge issue that I go forward with it. If you have any positive posts that youd like to share with anyone here then please do...bc...so many great nurses have shared their different perceptions on this and made me think about other things at stake...and I am very appreciative of that.

GLORIAmunchkin72 · Dec 16, 2005

TNNURSE, you say that:" The state nurse pratice acts and the public protection acts...actually make it illegal for us to do/say nothing.In some states it is criminal and nurses can be prosecuted in a "clause " of negligent homicide if we say nothing."

That's all very nice, but what good is it if the "law" won't stand by you?. This is their chance to prove that they mean what they say. Good luck to you!

RNS for Unity · Dec 17, 2005

12/16/05

As nurses we need to stick together, try unionizing the entire USA the CNA is making just that attempt. United we stand, divided we fall. When the Nurses group marched on Wahingotn D.c. and select RNS spoke to the Congress, the congressmen recommended that the RNS join/organize unions to get their employnent needs met.More than ever we as all citizens of the USA need unions for our protection, from unfair labor practices and our job protection.

Happy Holidays,

RNS for Unity

Nicky032605 · Dec 17, 2005

I think you are all correct when you say that the nursing shortage is manufactured and the reasons for it. This thread has been very educational. A real eye opener on so many levels. Thank you!!!!!!!!

Keysnurse2008 · Dec 17, 2005

gloria....I dont know all the answers....but I do know that when you say nothing...it is ethically wrong.Its like ..if you were at a store and were watching it being "held up" from the outside of that store.Should you call 911?Yes.Why..??? bc ..it is the ethical, moral and legally right/correct thing to do.It is sad when HC facilities try intimidation, and any other tactic to force a nurse to back down from their statements.I share your concerns ...believe me.But...we have to step up and say something .I honestly fear that until some major event occurs and a catastophic event occurs that shocks the media bc of everyones silence that nurses will still fear retaliation and not step up...and it will be due to self preservation.Can anyone tell me about how you find info on labor unions for nurses????

CseMgr1, ASN, RN · Dec 17, 2005

I find the above posts very moving and frightening.

We are considered dangerous to the Powers That May Be, if we want to do what is best for our patients and effect change.

JFK, RFK and MLK also wanted to effect change and look what happened to them, for they were considered dangerous, also.

Think about it.....

jodyangel, RN · Dec 17, 2005

Yep its frightening. People who go into nursing for the Most part do so because they CARE. And to know there is No job security and No real voice when these wrongs are done......is just mindblowing.

I was fired wrongfully and had to have 6 weeks of punishment with NO income before christmas. Why? Because the hospital can say whatever they want to unemployment and thats that.

Believe me, there is little a nurse can do about it. I'm glad I just started the new job, but that doesnt help me with the lost weeks of pay.

I really feel we need Unions...but how will that ever happen??

I find the above posts very moving and frightening.
We are considered dangerous to the Powers That May Be, if we want to do what is best for our patients and effect change.
JFK, RFK and MLK also wanted to effect change and look what happened to them, for they were considered dangerous, also.
Think about it.....

CseMgr1, ASN, RN · Dec 17, 2005

It's just a fact that our country is not run by our government, but rather by big business and like-minded individuals who will stop at nothing to keep their warped ideals of The American Dream viable...no matter the cost. You go along with their crooked little games, and the sky's the limit. Buck the System, and you're dead meat. Try and fight them, and you wind up with NOTHING, after your lawyers present their bill and walk away smelling as bad as the people you have just tried to sue...and even richer to boot. :angryfire