Racism at Oakland University? - page 5
In Dean Catherine Vincent's pediatric pathophysiology course, all of her white middle-class students did exceptionally well but a Mexican-American student in her class failed miserably. What was the... Read More
Jun 9, '02Occupation: Enterprise Application Systems Analyst Specialty: 27 year(s) of experience in Everything except surgery ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 5,601; Likes: 174AMEN and AMEN!
Jun 9, '02Occupation: travel nurse Joined: May '02; Posts: 71I often see people with a diagnosis of CHF who keep talking about thier Pneumonia....they truly believe that that is the problem since they FEEL like it is..they cough and are miserable...and insist that fresh air is the cause....when we nurses work to educate the clients as to the true culprit we are not judging thier feelings as invalid..just taking an object look and noting that there is more than one possible cause for the FEELING that exists.
I am a minority. I have a foster daughter who is of a different minority group. I have seen racism at its's most hideous. But by always accepting the pain of a minority person as being caused by negative emotions in another we may miss the chance to find a truer cause.and, when you claim that only Manuel can say how he FELT in the situation, you are saying that since only HE knows how he feels, that settles the matter.....but...........to say that the feeling of being hated for one's race means that one IS hated due to race means that we must all decide that WE know what the instructor was FEELING........WE, as readers of the post, decide that if someone FEELS that the instructor is FEELING hatred, it must be true........seems like the ONLY ONE who can KNOW if the instructor FEELS prejudice is that instructor.
Jun 9, '02Occupation: Enterprise Application Systems Analyst Specialty: 27 year(s) of experience in Everything except surgery ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 5,601; Likes: 174I'm sorry but I feel you missed my point entirely.... from what you have stated about. But no matter you're entitled to your opinion.
Jun 10, '02Occupation: Retired Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 4,288; Likes: 31I stated in an earlier post that as a nurse I had never experienced racism but I do recall other times when I have.
One in particular comes to mind when I was younger (maybe 11 or 12) when we were on a family vacation and traveling through the midwestern states. We stopped at this restauraunt and the waitress who was obviously uncomfortable came up to the table and told us "I'm really sorry folks but the manager won't let me serve you because you are mexican". We had to get up and leave with all those eyes watching us.
That is an example of racism and there have been other times as well.
I'm not sure if what you are experiencing with your studies is or is not Manual and if my earlier post stating you were perhaps oversensitve was out of line I apologize but my point was that one can let the feeling that you can't get ahead due to forces beyond your control will slow you down in reaching your goals.
Good luck with everything.
Jun 11, '02Joined: May '02; Posts: 151; Likes: 2The hispanic student may have had a language barrier.... In that situation most universities/colleges... wouldn't accept her... so she would have had enough english in her interveiw...
Also if her reading/writing where the weakness - then most colleges and universitys would have a tribunal of sorts to assess and exam students verbally....
I won't go into more details here... and ultimatly to me compassion and over all effeciency are my things - then I can't see a problem.
There is a socialogical element that she did poorly because of her self conciouness... seeing everyone white around her...
Sometimes, ones own opinion is used to kill there wits... and then they are the master of there own demise
Jun 11, '02Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 246; Likes: 9I have reviewed the posted material on your web site including the examinations and your commentary. I fail to see how you can attribute your performance to racism.
A substantial portion of your point deductions resulted from a failure to answer what was asked. For example, a question would ask for pathophysiology and clinical manifestations and your answers would address only the pathophysiology. Whether these omissions resulted from an inability to answer or carelessness in reading the question I have no way of knowing. But clearly, the questions were unambiguous and they were not fully answered. Moreever, in my opinion the test preparer was rather consistent as to style and format. As such, even if such omissions were due to carelessness on exam #1, there should have been no such mistakes on subsequent exams; that is one could pretty much count on questions with multiple requirements/characteristics to be addressed. Unfortunately, similar mistakes recurred.
Similarly, a significant portion of your point deductions resulted from a failure to provide an answer of any kind. I have no idea whether or not you would have been able to answer the questions had more time been provided. Failure to honor your request to verbally answer questions beyond the time provided for the rest of the class in my view is not in any way racist.
By your own admission, you failed to adequately prepare for Exam #3. You were well aware that the testing would be rigorous, yet you chose to give less than your best effort.
Finally, I should point out that that the language on the front page of each exam makes it clear that in no way should they have ever found their way to your web site.
I regret that I must reply in such an abrupt manner, but frankly I find it troubling that an inflammatory charge such a racism has largely gone unchallanged on this thread.
Jun 12, '02Occupation: Worrywort Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 1,349; Likes: 16Honesty is no antidote for racism.
It just seems to make the condition worse.
It seems that the best we can do is let it go dormant. It responds to the best of treatments by mutating into a more virile form that is then spread by the host.
Take universal precautions.
Racism is a carousel that nobody can seem to find thier way off of.
Welcome to the board.
Jun 12, '02Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 10,236; Likes: 65Very nicely put rstewart! That's a great first post!
Manuel - I sense your frustrations and anger, and by no means wish to minimize it. But I've looked at the test. And I have to agree with some of the other posters here that I don't think the questions were answered as COMPLETELY as the instructor had been asking for.
You said in an earlier post about how demoralizing failing this class is for you. (Please, I'm not quoting, too tired to look back for your EXACT words). I understand that, but I feel that it is out of these feelings that you are grasping at straws here.
I do feel that perhaps you're being overly sensitive. If everyone in my nursing class that had failed a class quit, we would have barely had a class at all.
And I just had to speak to your comment about there being to black nurses on the ICU unit. Is it too much to assume that no black nurses in that area wanted to work ICU? Or am I just looking at the situation through white girl glasses?
And you've blatantly violated the school's policy about reproducing the exam. I would think they could suspend you entirely for that.
However this turns out Manuel, I hope you find the answers you're looking for and the peace you deserve.
Jun 12, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '01; Posts: 1,487; Likes: 70I just have to say be careful what you post here, Manuel. Some folks on this bb have been burned b/c of things that were posted here that others read. You never know who is reading. Seriously. If that dean sees this, and sees that you've posted those exams on your website and weren't supposed to, you could be kicked out of the school if it's a violation of an honor code or regulation.
You have a right to free speech to a point, yes, but I would seriously consider consulting a lawyer about what's posted here if you intend to pursue legal action. Some of it could be considered slander, even if it is true. Just watch your back. That's all I'm saying.
Jun 12, '02Joined: May '02; Posts: 151; Likes: 2I feel in this day and age... this has little to do with color, race, creed or sex.... going over the threads in Nurse-zine alone would show anyone that some of us frequent certain threads more then others... regardless of our present, past or future life, regardless of color, race creed or sex.... it would be wrong to assume that any of the factors stated are an issue... I will mantian that a language barrier could be in place.
If there was such an injustice... ALL places in this day and age have an appropraite way and method to make greavences... and with that once completed and done in accordance to rules is still valid... then there is an appeal period... my question is if we are talking college and university here then there is something MISSING or not being told us on this thread....
I would hate to assume that some organizations are not allowing anyone for whatever reason to 'fail' another for 'whatever' the reason and I'm starting to wonder if there is more here then meets the eye...
Jun 15, '02Joined: May '01; Posts: 365; Likes: 1I don't quite understand this post.
But I wanted to say "HI!" I wish I had more time to read this post and understand what's everyone's discussing. I'll come back and try to understand more.
I do know the Pediatric Profressor. She was a knowledgable instructor and I learned a lot from her. She was a tough instuctor but a good instructor. (If it's the same Professor Vincent that taught Pediatrics)
My class had 4-5 black ladies. And 4-5 white men. The remaining students were white ladies. (ages ranging from younger to older)
I currently work in Detroit. There's a lot of fellow workers that are all different races and gender.
Jun 15, '02Joined: May '01; Posts: 365; Likes: 1I figured out where all the exams were.
I don't have much time as I previously said. But all the writing looks like my paperwork. I didn't excel in her class....it wasn't a racism thing for me. I'm very easily intimitated and I think that's my problem. I tell you....I've grown a lot since nursing school.
She's teaching in the Master's program now?? OMG I was thinking of getting my Master's...She does the pediatric portion?
Congratulations in getting into the Master's program!! Good luck!! I hope you graduate!!!
Jun 15, '02Joined: Sep '01; Posts: 16,606; Likes: 681Manuel...I was the only Black nursing student in all of my clinical rotations and college nursing classes, and I graduated with a 3.4 GPA. I gave the studies all I could to the best of my brain power, and didn't allow my race to become a factor, even though there were a few touchy situations that I could have made a big deal out of. I tried to offer to my all white counterparts and all white instructors the best ME I could, just like I try to do in all walks of my life to everyone...regardless of their race, color, creed, or religion. I don't exist as a "race", but as a human being with much potential to offer society, family, and self. Give your work the best you can, and then you will have something to stand on when it comes into question. If you have had others review your exams and other work, and they see areas where you could have worked a little harder, or presented a more indepth response to the test's questions, then learn to accept that we aren't always going to be graded the way we think we should. A bad grade does hurt, but the ultimate outcome is are you giving it the best you can so when you graduate you will be able to say "Well done Manuel"? Sounds to me like you are being too hard on yourself in all the wrong ways. Are you? Are you a perfectionist who can't stand anything less than "A" grades? How is your self-esteem? Does this time in your life remind you of any other time in your life? Were you this way growing up as a child in school, too? I'm just throwing these thoughts at you to hopefully cause you to reflect on other rationales for why you are so hurt when you don't do well, to the point of you having to always focus on your race or skin color as the root of the problem. I wish you well in your endeavors in life, Manuel. (((hugs)))