Importing nurses from the Phillipines - page 3
My hospital is working on getting nurses from the Phillipines to fill some of our needs. We have been in the paper process for almost a year and now it looks like we actually will be getting some of... Read More
Oct 3, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 10Sunnygirl----- I was given that stats by a nurse educator. I'll be happy to contact her to give where she got the stats from. I am not sure where's your location, but just visit one of the hospital here in CA and just look around you.
Oct 3, '02Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 1,050; Likes: 43I was given that stats by a nurse educator. I'll be happy to contact her to give where she got the stats from. I am not sure where's your location, but just visit one of the hospital here in CA and just look around you.
Oct 3, '02From: NY, US ; Joined: May '02; Posts: 4,130; Likes: 91Originally posted by 2ndCareerRN
I would also like to see the source for that bit of information. There is a lot more to the US than CA hospitals. I have worked in Las Vegas, Oklahoma, and Washington. I have never worked with a Filipina nurse. Just my observation.
Oct 3, '02Occupation: Utilization Review, prior Intake Mgr Home Care Specialty: 40 year(s) of experience in Home Care, Vents, Telemetry, Home infusion ; From: PA, US ; Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 27,548; Likes: 13,755Please keep your posts on topic without bashing others.
I've posted before about working at the UN--in a West Philadelphia, PA hospital in 1977-1999. Middle shift had Seamus from Ireland and Lita from Phillipines as RN's. Night shift worked with Mrs T from Thailand as night shift Supervisor, Anna C from India and Anna T--IV therapist RN extraordinare who found er invented veins in patients. These fine folks heavily invested in this novice LPN nurse and led me to become the professional RN I am today. Our night shift ancillary staff was from around the world.
Yes, they spoke English but I had to understand their accent/broggue. As charge nurse on nights, I had the aides help interpret Mrs T for about three months as she spoke rapidly. Came to understand her as a brillant woman who kept our hospitals night shift together and the hospital afloat. Initially reserved, they opened up and became more assertive after a few months. I'm sure I'd be the same way if I went to India, Phillipines or even England to practice nursing. They were great practitioners and patient centered advocates.
Agree that potluck dinners brought us together. Treasure Seamus's Quiche recipe and learned the secret to Ponsit and Greens. Unless workplace conditions are improved, even foreign educated nurses will only stay the length of their contract.
Here are some interesting articles on the subject:
National Council of State Boards of Nursing (NCSBN) Position Statement: Foreign (International) Nurse Immigration
From ANA: Immigration and the Nursing Workforce
Uniform Core Licensure Requirements
A Supporting Paper, July 1999
International council tackles universal issues
Nursing shortages, poverty, standards of care bedevil health-care systems worldwide
World Health Organization: Trade in health services
Nursing shortage imperils patients
An Opinion: The Future of Nursing
http://www.nurspeak.com/tools/articles/future.htmLast edit by NRSKarenRN on Jun 1, '03
Oct 4, '02Occupation: registered orthopedics nurse Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 29; Likes: 1i am glad that this issue is in focus. yes i agree whatever race ,color or creed, a nurse is still a nurse. we filipinos accept constructive critisism but not destructuctive almost a racist
reply. i am currently working in a multi culture hospital here in central london working with irish, spanish, south african
canadian,australian and american nurses but we never clash on whos the braniest or whos country's nursing education gives the best. were all the dream team because at the end of the day its the patients that we look after and discharging them with good results is what makes us a good or even an excellent nurse whatever your nationality is. i admit its a bit of a shock for me when i first came to england specially their accents coz im quite used to the american way of speaking and up to now they question me about it. my friend a.k.a. nurse betty is a nurse from arizona and i was asigned to be her mentor shes very shocked about the practice in here but after a while shes one of my best staff nurse. you see all it takes is time, even a flower cannot blossom overnight. kudos to all my co nurses. thanks for those
inspiring response. and to all my co-filipino or foreign nurses remeber that a flower that blooms in adversity is the most rare and beautiful. be proud of what you are and try to be the best of what you are without stepping on somebody,s or anybody,s shoe.
Oct 4, '02Occupation: registered orthopedics nurse Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 29; Likes: 1jed hows california? its foggy here in london but anyway take care
Oct 4, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 2,662; Likes: 46In our city, we have many Phillipine nurses who were recruited in the '80s - '90s. Their nursing schools are based on US nursing schools, they graduate with BSNs, theyre taught in English & use US nursing textbooks - their training is very similar to our own & thats why US hospitals seek them out. It used to be that the country produced more RNs than it needed & they were encouraged to emigrate to other countries but the well is drying up & the Phillipines is also facing its own shortage - especially of experienced nurses. Continued recruitment from countries that need their own nurses is a reprehensible thing to do. Recently in the news, a Phillipine official was quoted asking other countries to slow down their RN recruitment in his country because they just couldnt keep up on more. But in the past 20 yrs, I have never had a problem working with Filipinas. Contrary to popular belief, they do not act as the MDs handmaiden & they do think for themselves. They are smart & dedicated. They do question orders & speak up for themselves in the workplace. They may seem meek & timid because of the way their culture teaches them to present themselves, but they are far from meek & timid. Foreign nurses have to be treated as any other RN at their facility, have to be paid the same as any other newly hired at her facility with the same education & experience would be, & if that facilitys RNs are unionized, the foreign recruit becomes part of the RN union too. Many Phillipine nurses here are active in the profession & are also pro-active in the workplace.
The New York State Nurses Assoc, one of the most successful & largest RN labor unions, has several Philipine RNs on the Board of Directors and as assembly delegates elected by the membership to direct the course of the union, the associations president elect is a Filipina and former president of the Phillipine Nurses Association of NY, well respected & loved by all. Its a misconception when people who do not have much interaction with nurses from the Phillipines consider them to be "china dolls" & subservient. They may be hesitant at first, being in a new country & trying to adapt to that, but the majority I have worked with are no doormats by any means. If we could see past our own prejudices, we would see so much more.Last edit by -jt on Oct 4, '02
Oct 4, '02Occupation: RN. Neuro ICU Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 449; Likes: 3listen, If there was ever anyone outhere who knows philippinos its me.
I spent two years as a mormon missionary in the philippines. I speak tagalog( the national language) and ilokano ( a native dililect very fluently. fluent enough to be a linquist for the military intel. I am also a Critical Care nurse. Trust me I have some insight on this matter that most don't.
I will tell you right now and bet my life on it. This is not going to work like you think it will. words can not even explain.
however if anyone ever needs a fluent Tagalog speaker who also knows the intracacies of critical care or any care for that matter. I can be bought. I am on my way to CRNA school but I do have about six months to give. If the price is right.
Oct 4, '02Occupation: Haemetology nurse Specialty: Oncology/Haemetology/HIV ; From: US ; Joined: May '02; Posts: 7,040; Likes: 7,483Originally posted by jed
Sunnygirl----- I was given that stats by a nurse educator. I'll be happy to contact her to give where she got the stats from. I am not sure where's your location, but just visit one of the hospital here in CA and just look around you.
I guess I'll have to take my passport with me - North of the Mason-Dixon line and West of the Mississippi. Remember you can leave the south without it, but they won't let you back in without proof of Southern citizenship.
I welcome all well-educated, well spoken qualified nurses to the US as I hope that they welcome me in my travels. I have been welcomed on missions - despite my great lack of knowledge of local customs, language and culture. I do have a problem with the US "stealing" nurses from underprivileged areas and not correcting the problems that have created the US nursing crisis to begin with. I also have a problem with the massive amounts of money that foreign recruitment and such takes, when the money could be used for other more worthy gains.
When will corporate america start fixing the problem, rather than just throwing more money at it?Last edit by caroladybelle on Oct 4, '02
Oct 4, '02Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 884; Likes: 8No foreign-trainned nurses are not prohibited from unionizing. As a matter of fact the Philippino nurses are behind a union push at a major Los Angeles hospital as I type this. Vote will be in December.
Oct 4, '02Joined: May '00; Posts: 2,065; Likes: 8We have nurses here from all over the world, including Philipino nurses. I worked with a lot of them, there is a philipino nurse on every ward here, some were ok and some weren't. Hey, isn't that normal?
My Dutch or Austrian collegues aren't so great sometimes, I am not always very nice to work with.
What I think most important is the language though, no matter what, all foreign nurses should know the language of the country they are going to.
Take care, Renee
PS: I don't like it, when "foreigners" are bashing each other about their English knowledges, it is pretty laughable!
Oct 4, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 2,662; Likes: 46<I never knew there was not a nursing shortage in other countries, I thought it was world wide.>
It is now. But a few years ago, the Phillipines had a surplus of nurses & encouraged Western countries to come in for overseas recruitment. After something like 20 yrs of this, they are facing their own shortage now - mostly of experienced nurses & they are having trouble graduating enough new nurses fast enough to fill the void. They cant keep up with drain from the all the recruiting, yet the West is not backing off its recruitment efforts there, even though it has been asked to by Phillipine officials.
Excerpt from June 27, 2001 Congressional Testimony by the ANA on the subject:
The ANA and I have deep concerns about the use of immigration as a means to address the emerging nursing shortage. As you are well aware, Chairman Durbin, immigration is the standard "answer" proposed by employers who have difficulty attracting American nurses to work in their facilities. We have been down this road many times before without success. There are a number of problems with increasing the immigration of foreign-trained nurses, following are just a few issues:
The influx of foreign-trained nurses only serves to further delay debate and action on the serious workplace issues that continue to drive American nurses away from the profession. As I mentioned earlier, a Presidential task force called to investigate the last major nursing shortage developed a list of recommendations. These 16 recommendations, released in December, 1988, are still very relevant today - they include issues such as the need to adopt innovative nurse staffing patterns, the need to collect better data about the economic contribution that nurses make to employing organizations, the need for nurse participation in the governance and administration of health care facilities, and the need for increased and loan repayment programs for nursing students. Perhaps if these recommendations were ever implemented we would not be here today. Certainly, we will be here in the future if they are ignored.
There are serious ethical questions about recruiting nurses from other countries when there is a world-wide shortage of nurses. The removal of foreign-trained nurses from areas such as South Africa, India, and the Caribbean deprives their home countries of highly trained health care practitioners upon whose skills and talents their countries heavily rely.
In addition, immigrant nurses are too often exploited because employers know that fears of retaliation will keep them from speaking up. There are numerous, disturbing examples from our experience with the expired H-1A nurse visa. In fact, several cases came from Illinois. The INS Chicago District issued a $1.29 million fine against FHC Enterprises, Inc. for 645 immigration document violations. FHC, Inc. fraudulently obtained 225 H-1A visas which were used to employ Filipino nurses as lower-paid nurse aides ($6.50 per hour) instead of as registered nurses ($12.50 per hour). The Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago agreed to pay $50,000 in fines and $384,700 in back wages to 99 Filipino nurses who were underpaid. In Kansas, 66 Filipino nurses were awarded $2.1 million to settle a discrimination case in which the Filipino nurses were not paid the same wage rate as U.S.-born registered nurses at the same facility. These are just a few of the cases that have come to light over the last decade........"
Oct 4, '02Occupation: registered orthopedics nurse Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 29; Likes: 1thats what scares me to enter american soils. here in england foreign or not you are paid the same according to grading.
we have a union here that protects us. i am about to work in california after passing me nclex but i declined after hearing those horrable stories.