Healthcare-NOW! 2009 National Strategy Conference

RN4MERCY · Oct 28, 2009

Might I ask why you believe you have to demonstrate? I thought this health care reform is/was a done deal?
Is Kellog's a for profit company. Imagine the right to food and someone's making obsence profits from cereal?

Healthcare reform is not a done deal; it never will be as long as insurance companies are allowed to decide who gets care and who doesn't. Access to comprehensive health care services is a right. It is the responsibility of society, through its governement, to assure this right.

When we ratified the United National General Assembly Universal Declaration of Human Rights on Dec 10, 1948, we agreed in Article 25:

•(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

•(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

According to Dr. Marcia Angell, of Physicians for a National Health Plan, "We live in a country that tolerates enormous disparities in income, material possessions, and social privilege. That may be an inevitable consequence of a free market economy. But those disparities should not extend to denying some of our citizens certain essential services because of their income or social status. One of those services is health care. Others are education, clean water and air, equal justice, and protection from crime, all of which we already acknowledge are public responsibilities. We need to acknowledge the same thing for health care.":up:

Why demonstrate? Well, we've written letters, made phone calls, burned up the fax machines, knocked on the doors and had them slammed in our faces hoping to get a seat at the table, to present an effective cure for the broken health system, so to speak. Single payer advocates were shut out and are continuing to be shut out of the debate, in favor of corporate interest legislation that won't be successful in controlling costs or expanding care. What I see is placebo politics offered in place of genuine reform. People's lives are at stake; our country ranks 37th in health outcomes according to the World Health Organization. Morally and ethically, as the richest country on earth, we can afford to do better; leading economists agree that we can well afford to expand and improve Medicare to cover all of us. It's obscene that we don't try. We have the highest death rate from preventable/treatable conditions out of the top 19 industrialized countries.

In the words of Lillian Wald, founder of public health nursing, "We commit ourselves to any wrong or degradation when we do not protest against it." That's why we demonstrate. It's worked before in the history of civil rights movements, so why not? Continuing with the status quo is not working! As nurses we have a duty to change circumstances that are against the interests or wishes of our patients. For-profit health care is just such a circumstance!

Onekidneynurse · Oct 29, 2009

Healthcare reform is not a done deal; it never will be as long as insurance companies are allowed to decide who gets care and who doesn't. Access to comprehensive health care services is a right. It is the responsibility of society, through its governement, to assure this right.
When we ratified the United National General Assembly Universal Declaration of Human Rights on Dec 10, 1948, we agreed in Article 25:
•(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
•(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
According to Dr. Marcia Angell, of Physicians for a National Health Plan, "We live in a country that tolerates enormous disparities in income, material possessions, and social privilege. That may be an inevitable consequence of a free market economy. But those disparities should not extend to denying some of our citizens certain essential services because of their income or social status. One of those services is health care. Others are education, clean water and air, equal justice, and protection from crime, all of which we already acknowledge are public responsibilities. We need to acknowledge the same thing for health care.":up:
Why demonstrate? Well, we've written letters, made phone calls, burned up the fax machines, knocked on the doors and had them slammed in our faces hoping to get a seat at the table, to present an effective cure for the broken health system, so to speak. Single payer advocates were shut out and are continuing to be shut out of the debate, in favor of corporate interest legislation that won't be successful in controlling costs or expanding care. What I see is placebo politics offered in place of genuine reform. People's lives are at stake; our country ranks 37th in health outcomes according to the World Health Organization. Morally and ethically, as the richest country on earth, we can afford to do better; leading economists agree that we can well afford to expand and improve Medicare to cover all of us. It's obscene that we don't try. We have the highest death rate from preventable/treatable conditions out of the top 19 industrialized countries.
In the words of Lillian Wald, founder of public health nursing, "We commit ourselves to any wrong or degradation when we do not protest against it." That's why we demonstrate. It's worked before in the history of civil rights movements, so why not? Continuing with the status quo is not working! As nurses we have a duty to change circumstances that are against the interests or wishes of our patients. For-profit health care is just such a circumstance!

If the stats hadn't been manipulated we wouldn't rank 37th. The death rate takes into account homicides. How will universal health care stop homicides? Most of the countries you compare us too are much smaller than we are. They have a very different life style.

When out founding fathers started this country they didn't want to follow the crowd. They wanted us to be INDEPENDENT. Independent of an oppresive government. Independent of any oppressive government.

This government is too large. It's the same old adage. Some is good too much is bad. We don't have a decent food program in this country. We don't have a decent housing program in this country. All the things we have are bandaids.

Many of us who are against a single payer, universal healthcare whatever you want to call it are not saying the present system isn't broken. We just don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

If a kid wants a $200 of shoes and his parents won't buy them who should he be mad at? His parents or the maker of the expensive shoes.

Many of us who are against this reform don't understand it. We aren't stupid. I don't think many understand what would happen. We can't know the future. We just don't believ the government can do a good job. We've seen them mess up too many programs in this country.

60 Minutes interviewed Medicare administrators. Those administrators admitted that Medicare is hit by about $60 BILLION A YEAR IN FRAUD. They can't run the programs they have already.

We are in a couple of wars that we shouldn't be in. Why would we allow our government to run healthcare.

Our governments already ration care to us by allowing states to limit the number of healtcare insurances we can buy. Some states have 2 to choose from and others have 30 or more or every one that's available. Why can't we just change that fact to encourage competition instead of a government run insurance company?

Will having the government running health care stem the tide of the ever increasing COST of healthcare? Do you believe that doctors will lower their rates, that medical devices will become cheaper? That hospitals will lower their prices? You do know that insured people get lower bills? Will hospital employees be willing to forgo raises or take a cut in pay to lower COSTS?

Those are the difficult questions people aren't answering.

Those are some of the questions we aren't getting answered.

K98 · Oct 29, 2009

K98, hello.
What's your strategy for healthcare reform? Do you even believe that reform is necessary? This thread isn't about communism and your name-calling doesn't further the discussion; in this case it appears to be an attempt to shut it down, or "hijack" the thread.
So, do you agree or disagree with acts of civil disobedience as a strategy to raise the consciousness of people regarding the injustice inherent in a for-profit health insurance industry? Have you ever been to a Healthcare-NOW rally? I have and there are wonderful people who put their heart and soul into making this country a better place to live---union workers, churchgoers, teachers, firefighters, physicians and nurses are willing to risk arrest as advocates for social justice in health care.
To us that means winning a single payer system, an improved and expanded MediCare for All national health plan.

You want to live in Europe? Move. BTW, enjoy your time in the Graybar Motel.

GCTMT · Oct 29, 2009

You want to live in Europe? Move. BTW, enjoy your time in the Graybar Motel.

Irrelevant K98. This thread is not about RN4MERCY and where she decides to live. Her post to you was thoughtful and sincere, but true to form your reply was rude and childish.

CRNA2007 · Oct 29, 2009

Your premise as usual is flawed. But why is great when the left engages in UNION ORGANIZED civil disobedience its a great thing, but when tea party protesters come out they are mocked and call lunatics and inciting riots and want harm to come to politicians? Hypocricy plain and simple

So, do you agree or disagree with acts of civil disobedience as a strategy to raise the consciousness of people regarding the injustice inherent in a for-profit health insurance industry? Have you ever been to a Healthcare-NOW rally? I have and there are wonderful people who put their heart and soul into making this country a better place to live---union workers, churchgoers, teachers, firefighters, physicians and nurses are willing to risk arrest as advocates for social justice in health care.

K98 · Oct 29, 2009

Irrelevant K98. This thread is not about RN4MERCY and where she decides to live. Her post to you was thoughtful and sincere, but true to form your reply was rude and childish.

I don't see it as irrelevant. The single payer system will not work because we can't afford it. I guess you socialists can't add and subtract, but the fact of the matter is that the money is not/will not be there. The current administration is planning on taxing those still working even more than they are being taxed at present to pay for this ill-conceived entitlement program. I was merely explaining to RN4MERCY that these idiotic programs are already in place in Europe. They don't work there and they won't work here. BTW, millions left Europe and came to the US so that they could be free to work/live in a free market capitalist system, where self reliance is valued above all else and hard work is rewarded by success. The government should not be selecting winners and losers. Another large and unfunded government bureaucracy will be disastrous for this country. But as your administration says, "never waste a crisis".

GCTMT · Oct 29, 2009

^... Your suggestion that social programs don't work in Europe have no basis in reality. They have problems, but they work and people appreciate them.

The European emigration is over, suggesting that millions of Europeans are currently fleeing an oppressive Europe to reach the shores of America is laughable.

I support single-payer health care because it's cheap, effective and equitable. It's not perfect, no system is, but it's a good idea that can be built on.

Onekidneynurse · Oct 30, 2009

^... Your suggestion that social programs don't work in Europe have no basis in reality. They have problems, but they work and people appreciate them.
The European emigration from Europe is over, suggesting that millions of Europeans are currently fleeing an oppressive Europe to reach the shores of America is laughable.
I support single-payer health care because it's cheap, effective and equitable. It's not perfect, no system is, but it's a good idea that can be built on.

Cheap????????? Do you have any idea how much we pay in this country for ONE DISEASE? Just one. ESRD. The only chronic illness totally funded by Medicare. And have you read the financials of the the two largest dialyzers in this country? Billions made in a quarter? But I don't see anyone trying to shut them down?

Effective. Sorta like the Post Office not being able to raise rates when gas prices go up? Now that makes business sense.

Equitable. Why does every "industrialized" country with universal health care have to rely on private health care insurance to get decent care? Doesn't that mean that again if you can afford it you can get it?

HM2VikingRN, RN · Oct 30, 2009

Equitable. Why does every "industrialized" country with universal health care have to rely on private health care insurance to get decent care? Doesn't that mean that again if you can afford it you can get it?

The post office is OT. The US ranks last in equity. TR Reid has an interesting discussion in his new book about the role of insurance in primary care. Primary care cannot be financed through a for profit system in other countries. (Actually the private insurance and sickness funds are thriving in Germany and other countries on a not for profit basis.) Supplemental insurance is sold but it isn't to provide "decent care" it is more to address elective care issues....

A little research shows that our system does fail the equity test.

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We pay cadillac prices for yugo level performance.

tewdles, RN · Nov 8, 2009

wow...just read the entire thread and am underwhelmed by the name calling and straw men that are offered up by those opposing health reform in our country.