Drug Abuse/Nurses/Kristi

Nurses Recovery

Published

I tried posting a reply directly to your post, but when I typed in my ID, etc., it just flipped me back to your topic, and didn't let me post, so I started a new topic, but on the SAME topic. I can't help you as far as journal articles, but I am very interested in the topic. It seems like when we have these incidents of substance impaired nurses in our facility, they always try to keep it quiet, so we're never sure what happens to these people. Some get fired, some go to treatment and get rehired on certain conditions, some resign and show up at other facilities eventually, and some ya just don't know what happens. I personally have no tolerance for these folks. When they start talking that jive about their "recovery" and their "disease" I tune out. I feel it's a betrayal of their co-workers, their facility reputation, their family, friends, and esp themselves. I have seen so many go through treatmant after treatment, nurses included, and they just aren't motivated. I have a "loaded weapon theory" that I bet would motivate them quick! But since our society takes such a liberal approach to addicts/alcoholics, plus there's MONEY TO BE MADE since it's a DISEASE, why would they be motivated? After all, they're DISABLED, right??? OK, I've told you what I think, so go ahead everyone and lay it on me! This is just my opinion, but I would give anyone one chance to clean up their act, then it's out the door Lulu! It costs all of us, and I for one am tired of paying!

OK, her goes! The key to the second chance in the same hospital, is the fact that he is a doctor. Another factor which probably influenced the hospital's decision to rehire and restore hospital priveleges; he makes money for the hospital. You said it yourself; the women still flock to see him. should the public refuse to be seen by him, the hospital would not have any reson to rehire him. BOTTOM LINE--HE MAKES THEM MONEY!!! As for my opinion on this issue, I believe that everyone should be given another chance (ONLY ONE THOUGH). I believe that anyone deserves the chance to change. However, I agree with the position of my state board. If caught drinking or under the influence of drugs while on duty, then they should have to agree to and receive a minium of 30 days inpatient treatment at an alcohol and drug rehabilitation center. After completing the inaptient treatment, they should have to complete a 1 year outpatient treatment program (needs to be confirmed by proper authorities that patient did attend). During this year the person should also be required to attend at least 3 AA OR 3 NA (Narcotics Anonymous) meetings weekly. Also, this person should not be allowed to dispense narcotics for a year after completing the inpatient treatment program. In addition, I believe that the person should have to be tested periodically for three years by random urine drug screens. This is my view for the first offense. I really hesitate to commit myself on the second offense. My first inclination is, THAT'S IT, YOUR OUT!!! But let's be honest, even harden criminals get a three strikes and your out. However, They are not usually involved in occupations where they are respoonsible for peoples lives. In lieu of this, for the second offense I would probably reccomend more inpatient treatment, 2 or 3 years with liscense suspended (NOT ABLE TO WORK AS RN OR LPN), AA and NA meetings for the entire period of suspension (at least 3 weekly), random drug screens during this period (if they plan on being reinstated in the profession). After completing all of these requirements successfully, they would then have to appear before the board of nursing of their state for a readmission request. Should a third occurence occur (THAT'S IT, YOUR OUT---NO MORE NURSING). Now as far as the other question; Unfortunately, I was placed in this position. A close friend of mine was using while in Nursing School. Then one day she showed up at clinical under the influence. I felt I was obligated by the profession of nursing and for the safety of others to report this to the faculty. This was the hardest thing I had to do in nursing school. In this case though, befoore the faculty had a chance to confront or take any action, she admitted that she had a problem and sought treatment for it. Thank GOD! When people's lives are at stake, their lives must come first before friendship or commradre. I hope this is on the right track.

Originally posted by bunky:se

OK ESDRN, here's a test of our tentative new found understanding. What do you think should happen if an RN gets caught drunk on the job, or stealing from the narcotic box?

I worked in a small community (only one hospital)where a local boy(turned God like Doctor), in the communities eyes,walked on water, specializing in OB, NOT an actual OB/GYN, but specialized GP. He got busted very publically by the FDA for stealing narcotics and he and his wife were both addicted, and both left the state to go to rehab. Of course he lost hospital privelages, and his license was yanked for a time. He came back, resumed his clinic, and was once again busted by the FDA, and rumor had it that they even found a heplock in his ankle! A year went by and now he not only has his practice back but he was just given his hospital privelages back! I feel this was insane! I don't think he should have had a license after the second drug bust. The amazing thing is that these women still flock to him to deliver their babies. What do you think of that?

Hi esdrn. I have a question. You and at least one other poster state that your substance abuse problems were already in place when you went into nursing. I have met one individual that seems to have gone into nursing because of the availability of drugs. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks.

This has been a very thought provoking discussion. I don't use alcohol or drugs, and I never have, but I also think we need to have policies that encourage nurses to seek and get help, rather than to punish them. I can't imagine how terrifying and isolating an adictive disease must be. Do we have a responsibility to safeguard the safety and well-being our patients? Of course we do. But we also have a responsibility to each other. We need to be more concerned with being fair and compassionate, than being on a moral crusade. There will always be nurses who are addicted working with us. The question is

are we going to be part of the solution in trying to get them help, or are we going to push them further into the closet, and have bigger problems in the long run? I choose to be the first.

The above is a good post, thanks. I agree, that we have a responsibility to our patients! I'm not so sure about our responsibility to each other; and in fact, this kind of thinking may have already gotten us into much hot water in this country. For instance, am I responsible for an unwed mother's children? I don't think so, but I still am forced to pay for her mistake, sometimes, several mistakes. Do I have a responsibility to confront the addicted individual with my observations and/or turn him/her in? Maybe, but I've done neither. I think the INDIVIDUAL needs to be responsible for the INDIVIDUAL! I think this best serves the community, if you will. Now, if we operate from that premise, then, what do we do with those individuals that just cannot and/or WILL NOT take resonsibility for their actions/behavior? Do We then have a responsibility to protect ourselves from these individuals, while in the same breath, our government continues to show us that, no, it's us who must pay, and pay, and pay? At what point, are we doing a grave disservice to the individual, by cleaning up after their mistakes? How best will the individual learn, that they need to be responsible for themselves? I think it's by taking responsibility for their actions and behaviors, myself included, of course! Thanks.

Hi PPL. I can only speak for myself on this issue. First of all, if I were still using while in nursing school, I would not have made it through nursing school. Also, should I start using today (BY THE GRACE OF GOD, I WON'T) I would not be working. You see when I use I become totally dysfunctional. I am not a recreational drinker. When I drink it is a 24/7 job. This person you speak of is currently a functional addict. Some people never become full-blown dysfunctional addicts/alcoholics. This means that they can still hold down a job and maintain on a functional level. Today ,I thank GOD that I became dysfunctional because if I could drink and manage to "maintain", I would still be using. I had to hit bottom and I thank GOD I did. I make no qualms about my disease of alcoholism. Everyone at work knows that I am a recovering alcoholic even the doctors. I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY OWN ACTIONS, THEN AND NOW. This person you speak of who went in nursing for the availability of drugs; will probably have a short career. LET ME CLARIFY, MY SUBSTANCE ABUSE WAS NOT ALREADY IN PLACE BEFORE I STARTED NURSING SCHOOL, RATHER MY RECOVERY WAS ALREADY IN PLACE. I used for 20 years and never had to go to the hospital to obtain my alcohol.

Originally posted by PPL:

Hi esdrn. I have a question. You and at least one other poster state that your substance abuse problems were already in place when you went into nursing. I have met one individual that seems to have gone into nursing because of the availability of drugs. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks.

Hi Dianee.A very professional an intellectual attitude.The reason more nurses or other professionals don't seek help is because of the stigma attached to being an addict/alcoholic. Since I am in recovery myself, I guess I am just more empathetic to addicts/alcoholics. As far as the cost; Someone had posted that they were paying the tab for my past abbuse. HA! HA! They will never know how much it cost the alcoholic/addict to live a low-life. I PAID FOR MY MISTAKES MYSELF!!! My family suffered, but certainly not the person who posted such an unintellectual remark as that. H*%#, if it weren't for sinners, we wouldn't need churches. LET THOSE WHO HAVE LIVED A PERFECT LIFE CAST THE FIRST STONE. Thanks for your insight Dianee.

Originally posted by dianee:

This has been a very thought provoking discussion. I don't use alcohol or drugs, and I never have, but I also think we need to have policies that encourage nurses to seek and get help, rather than to punish them. I can't imagine how terrifying and isolating an adictive disease must be. Do we have a responsibility to safeguard the safety and well-being our patients? Of course we do. But we also have a responsibility to each other. We need to be more concerned with being fair and compassionate, than being on a moral crusade. There will always be nurses who are addicted working with us. The question is

are we going to be part of the solution in trying to get them help, or are we going to push them further into the closet, and have bigger problems in the long run? I choose to be the first.

Hi esdrn and other posters. Yes, I hear what you're saying. Also, this nurse's career of which I speak HAS been cut short, after many attempts to clean up their act. That "hitting bottom" point you mention, which I prefer to call "the motivating point," at which a person begins to turn their life around, is different for each individual. Some will reach it when they have a few rounds in court, some after they've killed someone while driving impaired, and some never seem to reach it. I do think substance abuse costs us all, but I also agree that it's the addict and their family who pay the dearest price. Thanks for posting.

PPL! PPL! PPL! I agree. I get frustrated with the idea that my tax dollars are paying for others mistakes. I get sick of the unwed mother thing, especially when it happens more than once. But, and maybe it's the Canadian Commie side in me, I have to remind myself that while that mother is a screw up, the child did nothing wrong! Why should the child be punished for the sins of the parents? Look at what goes on in countries like Ethiopia where the people are starving while their warlord leaders own private jets. Can we turn our backs on those people just because we disagree with their government? I think to be fair we have to look at the fact that we are talking about human beings. While you and I may not dip into the narcotic cupboard, or sneak a flask of Jack Daniels into our lockers, the people that do are still human beings. I truly don't know how I feel on what should be done with a nurse who is found to have an addiction, but we have to keep in mind that we are talking about real people. And you know, I think I would turn them in! If I found out that someone was coming to work high on something, I'd turn them in! I wouldn't confront them myself, I'd go right to the supervisor and turn them in. For the safety of the patients, I'd do it. Not so that they'd seek help. That'd be up to them. I tend to believe that if they felt that they needed the help they would turn themselves in.

WOW, MAN WHAT A HEAVY RAP--I'M GETTING PARANOID-- GUESS I'LL HAVE A DRINK AND RELAX YEECH! HORRIBLE, BUT I NEEDED IT. NOW, YOU WERE SAYING------- I FORGOT

I tried e-mailing to you DC but it was "undeliverable" so here:

I work at a very nice hospital in Southern California that has hired nurses in the BRN diversion program. They have (all but one I heard of) been very good nurses who are willing to help, reliable, and glad to have been given the chance.

This good hospital does not want employees saying where they work so, for instance my opinion won't be misconstrued as the hospital position. If you want to relocate e-mail me and I will tell you the name. If not I'm sure there is another facility that is willing to give you a chance. In this shortage I think the gratitude of a good nurse would be worth more than the "stay a year for the bonus" many get. The hospital that acts on that may be an ideal place to work. Nursing is difficult enough without the disrespecful employers many of us have.

Bless us all.

For information of the BRN program in California go to www.rn.ca.gov/

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[This message has been edited by spacenurse (edited October 16, 2000).]

Specializes in ER,ICU,L+D,OR.

Some very good points brought up in here.

Specializes in ICU.

You're right, however, I would love to see these same people posting today. If they are still here, I'd love to see a new thread started. It has been 8 years since this thread and attitudes have changed TREMENDOUSLY. Not only on this board, but in the nursing practice and medical community in general.

So, here is my invite to the origional poster. Come back and start a new thread. I am positive that it will be totally different if you pose the same topic and type it again word for word.

As far as nurses getting off with a slap on the wrist, that is by far the furthest thing from the truth. I don't have to explain it here, go to your states peer assistance website. Read the rules and regulations. That is NOT a slap on the wrist. It is closer to what the OP called a 'gun to the head'.

That's all I have to say for now.

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