Nurses Promoting COVID Misinformation

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 6, 2021

6 minutes ago, Gooday said:

Here is everything you need to know about COVID-19 from the FDA. Covids package insert. Please study before making accusations of Misinformation. The default setting in our day is accusation instead of conversation and I believe its the root of 90% of our nations divisiveness and problems.

EUA 20734_Full PI-HCP FS_Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine_FINAL_22Sep2021 (2).pdf

Everything we need to know about Covid vaccine in a packaging insert? EVERYTHING? Looks like boilerplate package insert to me. Don't know what your point is. If I ever worked in an ET again, I'm sure I would see many more patients with effects of Tylenol OD than I would see from vaccine because they are so extremely rare and occur less often than in patients who acquire Covid infection.

Gooday · Oct 6, 2021

26 minutes ago, subee said:

Everything we need to know about Covid vaccine in a packaging insert? EVERYTHING? Looks like boilerplate package insert to me. Don't know what your point is. If I ever worked in an ET again, I'm sure I would see many more patients with effects of Tylenol OD than I would see from vaccine because they are so extremely rare and occur less often than in patients who acquire Covid infection.

My point is I shared information from the package insert and nurses started saying it was misinformation. When in fact they were spreading misinformation by calling it misinformation. While at the same time saying people who spread misinformation should be reported to the board, my question is will they report themselves for voicing a misinformed opinion. I simply stated there are no long-term studies on Covid vaccine outcomes, and I took the vaccine after weighing the risks of getting it with the risks of not getting it. Under warnings the insert repeats everything I said verbatim. I shared quotes from the insert without sharing the insert because I knew this would happen in a conversation about false information. People report people for spreading false info even though it is true info, my point is you should study before you attack. In fact you should not attack you should open a dialogue and speak to the concerns.

toomuchbaloney · Oct 6, 2021

1 hour ago, Gooday said:

My point is I shared information from the package insert and nurses started saying it was misinformation. When in fact they were spreading misinformation by calling it misinformation. While at the same time saying people who spread misinformation should be reported to the board, my question is will they report themselves for voicing a misinformed opinion. I simply stated there are no long-term studies on Covid vaccine outcomes, and I took the vaccine after weighing the risks of getting it with the risks of not getting it. Under warnings the insert repeats everything I said verbatim. I shared quotes from the insert without sharing the insert because I knew this would happen in a conversation about false information. People report people for spreading false info even though it is true info, my point is you should study before you attack. In fact you should not attack you should open a dialogue and speak to the concerns.

So you are saying that you don't understand what misinformation is? You are elevating concern about the vaccines.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 6, 2021

2 hours ago, Gooday said:

My point is I shared information from the package insert and nurses started saying it was misinformation. When in fact they were spreading misinformation by calling it misinformation. While at the same time saying people who spread misinformation should be reported to the board, my question is will they report themselves for voicing a misinformed opinion. I simply stated there are no long-term studies on Covid vaccine outcomes, and I took the vaccine after weighing the risks of getting it with the risks of not getting it. Under warnings the insert repeats everything I said verbatim. I shared quotes from the insert without sharing the insert because I knew this would happen in a conversation about false information. People report people for spreading false info even though it is true info, my point is you should study before you attack. In fact you should not attack you should open a dialogue and speak to the concerns.

I still don't know what long term effects you are talking about. Are you talking about the myocarditis? My limited reading has indicated that this is largely transient and these people recover well. We don't know if the vaccine is a form of stress testing for young people who may have undiagnosed underlying disease or of the vaccine is an independent variable. But, nevertheless, the statistical probability is that more people would experience myocarditis following a covid infection than following a vaccine. So, they would be worst off without the vaccine. Is there another significant danger listed in the side effects that I'm not seeing. Anaphylaxis doesn't count since it is treatable and is one of the few indications for taking it with treatment available on site. You are de facto spreading misinformation if you just tell the side effects outside of what that side effect would be if you became sick with Covid. You know, the other half of the story.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 9, 2021

On 10/6/2021 at 11:24 AM, subee said:

I still don't know what long term effects you are talking about. Are you talking about the myocarditis? My limited reading has indicated that this is largely transient and these people recover well. We don't know if the vaccine is a form of stress testing for young people who may have undiagnosed underlying disease or of the vaccine is an independent variable. But, nevertheless, the statistical probability is that more people would experience myocarditis following a covid infection than following a vaccine. So, they would be worst off without the vaccine. Is there another significant danger listed in the side effects that I'm not seeing. Anaphylaxis doesn't count since it is treatable and is one of the few indications for taking it with treatment available on site. You are de facto spreading misinformation if you just tell the side effects outside of what that side effect would be if you became sick with Covid. You know, the other half of the story.

Never got an answer from this person but found this in Medscape today and it adds emphasis to my argument by giving some numbers:

Bozkurt, a leading heart failure specialist and researcher, didn't contribute to any of the new reports but does study the myocarditis of COVID-19 and was lead author on a recent review of the potential vaccine complication's features and possible mechanisms.

In the new myocarditis reports, she observed, more than 90% of the cases were mild and "resolved on their own without a major adverse outcome." Bozkurt emphasized the need for perspective regarding the risk. For example, the myocarditis associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection is not only more likely than the vaccine-related myocarditis, but it's also usually far more severe.

Bozkurt pointed to a recent study in which the mRNA vaccines, compared with no vaccination, appeared to escalate the myocarditis risk by a factor of 3, whereas the risk for myocarditis in SARS-CoV-2 infection was increased 18 times.

In contrast, she observed, the new myocarditis cases reported this week feature a few that are novel or are at least very rare, including the case of a patient who developed cardiogenic shock and another with fulminant myocarditis who died.

Gooday · Oct 14, 2021

On 10/6/2021 at 9:24 AM, toomuchbaloney said:

So you are saying that you don't understand what misinformation is? You are elevating concern about the vaccines.

I'm not elevating anything, sharing a package insert is simply sharing information. You are the one trying to push an agenda. You want to force people to agree with you and punish them if they share information that disagrees with your agenda or with you even if that information is factual and from the manufacturers. You want everyone to submit to what you think they should do. It's each persons right to decide based on the facts what they want to do with their body, Autonomy. You may not agree and that's okay, I honor your decision, but you really need to stop trying to intimidate people into agreeing with you.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 14, 2021

59 minutes ago, Gooday said:

I'm not elevating anything, sharing a package insert is simply sharing information. You are the one trying to push an agenda. You want to force people to agree with you and punish them if they share information that disagrees with your agenda or with you even if that information is factual and from the manufacturers. You want everyone to submit to what you think they should do. It's each persons right to decide based on the facts what they want to do with their body, Autonomy. You may not agree and that's okay, I honor your decision, but you really need to stop trying to intimidate people into agreeing with you.

Intimidate? Electronically? Really? Why do you only share the miniscule negatives of the vaccine instead of the trememdous benefit it offers us? Nurses are aware of the damage manipulating statistics can do in promoting vaccine hesitency which just keeps us in the circle loops of continuing brushfires that have to be put out with great expense in terms of loss of good health and loss of dollars.

toomuchbaloney · Oct 14, 2021

3 hours ago, Gooday said:

I'm not elevating anything, sharing a package insert is simply sharing information

Sure. The intention is to just provided that basic information because you assume that nurses aren't aware already? In this current time, that information is used to generate unhealthy concern about potential side effects which then increases vaccine hesitancy. I guess you are saying that you are unaware of that problem in the USA right now and you have no idea that actions such as yours contribute to that hesitancy.

Well now you know. Publishing that information as if there is something really important in that information that should cause concern IS part of the antivaxx strategy in the USA right now.

3 hours ago, Gooday said:

You may not agree and that's okay, I honor your decision, but you really need to stop trying to intimidate people into agreeing with you.

LOL

Here's the antivaxxer victim complex. I'm sorry that feel intimidated. Your feelings aren't evidence of anything beyond your emotional status.

You really need to stop suggesting to people that maybe the vaccines aren't all that safe by highlighting potential side effects.

Gooday · Oct 14, 2021

2 hours ago, subee said:

Intimidate? Electronically? Really? Why do you only share the miniscule negatives of the vaccine instead of the trememdous benefit it offers us? Nurses are aware of the damage manipulating statistics can do in promoting vaccine hesitency which just keeps us in the circle loops of continuing brushfires that have to be put out with great expense in terms of loss of good health and loss of dollars.

The package insert contains both the negatives and the positives. Not either or but both. A medical professional does not push there agenda. They give the facts both good and bad and allow others to make informed decisions. Trying to hide facts causes suspicion and suspicion causes people to be hesitant. I'm a community activist, I have done a lot of work with homeless people and being honest and giving them all the information removes the hesitancy, not belittling or minimizing their concerns. Honesty is best, that honesty may cause some to hesitate and others, most from my experience will take the shot. Years ago a guy was trying to get people to invest, all he talked about was how much money people would make, the risks were minimal, but there were some risks, a lot of people made money, some lost everything. The stock broker was sued and lost the case because he had an agenda and did not educate his investors of the risks no matter how minimal. What he did was illegal. That same principle applies in nursing. Your are responsible for sharing all risks and benefits. The vaccine companies cannot be sued because of emergency use but a medical professional who does not share the risks can be sued if they do not share the risks and there is an adverse outcome. I'm done with this post because Im tired of the conversation. We both want people vaccinated. I just want to do it honestly.

toomuchbaloney · Oct 14, 2021

7 minutes ago, Gooday said:

A medical professional does not push there agenda.

Encouraging vaccination is not a personal agenda, it's public health recommendation during a deadly pandemic.

No one is trying to hide facts about the vaccines. That's simply your fear based belief that is not supported by facts or evidence.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 14, 2021

13 minutes ago, Gooday said:

The package insert contains both the negatives and the positives. Not either or but both. A medical professional does not push there agenda. They give the facts both good and bad and allow others to make informed decisions. Trying to hide facts causes suspicion and suspicion causes people to be hesitant. I'm a community activist, I have done a lot of work with homeless people and being honest and giving them all the information removes the hesitancy, not belittling or minimizing their concerns. Honesty is best, that honesty may cause some to hesitate and others, most from my experience will take the shot. Years ago a guy was trying to get people to invest, all he talked about was how much money people would make, the risks were minimal, but there were some risks, a lot of people made money, some lost everything. The stock broker was sued and lost the cast because he had an agend and did not educate his investors of the risks no matter how minimal. What he did is illegal. That same principle applys in nursing.

Please show me a package insert that sings the praises of it's products. They don't do that. There are there to help the end user administer them safely One is supposed to know the reason you are prescribing or administering it and that is effective for the particular disease. We don't read it to find out if the drug is effective. Gotta read a lot more than that little piece of paper before prescribing it. Do you read the package insert to your patients? With what we are learning about Covid, the insert is already passe by the time we open the box. The same us true of much of what we read in print. By the time it is printed, parts if the article are already obsolete. A stock broker with a license has a legal fiduciary responsibility to his client. Why Bernie Madoff died in prison instead of the Hamptons. We are not fulfilling our obligation to the patient by merely reading what's on the package insert. There is MORE we have to say to explain why the patient us receiving a particular med. Like context.

macawake, MSN · Oct 14, 2021

On 10/14/2021 at 4:31 PM, Gooday said:

The package insert contains both the negatives and the positives. Not either or but both.

Other posters have already responded but I’ll chime in anyway.

I’m European and I don’t know if your medication and vaccine package inserts are different then ours, but I doubt it. They do not contain ”both the positives and the negatives”. The package insert will have information like what the drug or vaccine contains, what it is approved to treat or prevent, what dose and administration route etc. and side effects and the frequency they occur at. It won’t say that the risk of getting seriously sick, not being cured or dying from x disease is y if you take the drug or vaccine as prescribed, and z if you don’t.

On 10/14/2021 at 4:31 PM, Gooday said:

A medical professional does not push there agenda. They give the facts both good and bad and allow others to make informed decisions.

But WE DO HAVE AN AGENDA! Our agenda is to promote public health. We strive for optimal health for our individual patients and society at large. I’m not sure what you mean when you use the word ”push”, but if it’s a synonym for promote, then heck yes! We should.

On 10/14/2021 at 4:31 PM, Gooday said:

Trying to hide facts causes suspicion and suspicion causes people to be hesitant.

On 10/14/2021 at 4:31 PM, Gooday said:

I'm done with this post because Im tired of the conversation. We both want people vaccinated. I just want to do it honestly.

I don’t know if you are misinformed or if you are just being rude. None of us hide facts. And we’re at least as honest as you are. I haven’t seen a single poster who promotes vaccines try to hide side effects. We frequently discuss them. The available data clearly shows that on a population level a Covid infection poses a much greater risk than vaccines, and that getting people vaccinated saves many lives.

This is something that’s not in the package insert but that I think is worth explaining to patients.

Data indicates that since Delta became the dominant strain in the US

for every vaccinated individual?

Who has died in the US

This many unvaccinated individuals have also died

???

With a larger sample it looks like this:

????
Isn’t it rather obvious why healthcare professionals promote vaccination?

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2282