Nurses Promoting COVID Misinformation

[Tigerlily8]

I am aware of a former colleague (RN) who is frequently posting inaccurate information on Twitter. She is discouraging social distancing, wearing masks and mandatory vaccination. She recently has been promoting the use of unproven medications to treat Covid-19 and states the pandemic is a hoax. This behavior reflects poorly on all health care providers, especially nurses. I don’t know what I could do other than reporting her to the Texas BON. Any ideas?

[Mini2544, ASN, RN]

While I agree no one should be spreading misinformation, although even our former FDA chief, Scott Gottlieb, has said our current social distancing guidelines and masking aren’t really based in sound science.. IF I was going to report anyone to the BON, it would be nurses who say that unvaccinated covid patients doesn’t deserve treatment in hospitals. 

[toomuchbaloney]

2 minutes ago, Mini2544 said:

While I agree no one should be spreading misinformation, although even our former FDA chief, Scott Gottlieb, has said our current social distancing guidelines and masking aren’t really based in sound science.. IF I was going to report anyone to the BON, it would be nurses who say that unvaccinated covid patients doesn’t deserve treatment in hospitals. 

He didn't really say that the science wasn't sound, just that the distance recommended was arbitrary and there wasn't great collaboration, right?

My state is in crisis medical status.  Who deserves inpatient beds and staffing resources in a crisis?

[Mini2544, ASN, RN]

4 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

He didn't really say that the science wasn't sound, just that the distance recommended was arbitrary and there wasn't great collaboration, right?

My state is in crisis medical status.  Who deserves inpatient beds and staffing resources in a crisis?

Same thing. Point is, he has openly questioned both of those current guidelines.  
well, while we are limiting care to those who are partially responsible.. why should we stop with those not vaccinated for Covid? Maybe overweight people who have massive heart attacks? Drug overdose victims? Criminals shot by the police? Victim of a car crash where they are at fault? I mean where does it stop? Triaging patients is based on survival. Not how they ended up there and whether the blame lies on the patient or not. 

[toomuchbaloney]

10 minutes ago, Mini2544 said:

Same thing. Point is, he has openly questioned both of those current guidelines.  
well, while we are limiting care to those who are partially responsible.. why should we stop with those not vaccinated for Covid? Maybe overweight people who have massive heart attacks? Drug overdose victims? Criminals shot by the police? Victim of a car crash where they are at fault? I mean where does it stop? Triaging patients is based on survival. Not how they ended up there and whether the blame lies on the patient or not. 

No, it's not the same thing.  Many mistakes were made in 2020 relative to covid.  

I'm not certain why you think that crisis care decisions involve deciding who is responsible or why other deadly health conditions have anything to do with a pandemic of a dangerous contagion.  Why do you think that blame is being assigned to covid patients? 

Meanwhile, unvaccinated covid patients are much more likely to require acute hospitalization and take up beds and staff resources that prevent all of the other health care needs that you listed from receiving safe and adequate care.  The unvaccinated covid patients sometimes get really sick and about 1% of them die after using lots and lots of health resources.  

Vaccination helps to prevent all of that.  

[Mini2544, ASN, RN]

3 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

No, it's not the same thing.  Many mistakes were made in 2020 relative to covid.  

I'm not certain why you think that crisis care decisions involve deciding who is responsible or why other deadly health conditions have anything to do with a pandemic of a dangerous contagion.  Why do you think that blame is being assigned to covid patients? 

Meanwhile, unvaccinated covid patients are much more likely to require acute hospitalization and take up beds and staff resources that prevent all of the other health care needs that you listed from receiving safe and adequate care.  The unvaccinated covid patients sometimes get really sick and about 1% of them die after using lots and lots of health resources.  

Vaccination helps to prevent all of that.  

Mistakes were made in 2020 and mistakes are still being made today. IF it wasn’t for the administration in charge prior, we wouldn’t have a vaccine. End of story. You can try to argue semantics but this current one can’t even get the story straight on booster shots.  At the end of the day this disease is an uncontrollable virus.  Vaccination without a doubt is the only way to prevent illness and death.  The original point of my comment is that I have seen a heck of a lot of nurses publically say they hospitals should turn away unvaccinated patients.  So if we are going to put energy into holding nurses responsible for violating our code of ethics… we should include those too.  I do not agree with discouraging people from vaccination, that’s dangerous and counterproductive. However if a nurse doesn’t want to take the vaccine and he or she talks publicly about it as their personal medical choice.. there is nothing wrong with that.  

[toomuchbaloney]

5 minutes ago, Mini2544 said:

Mistakes were made in 2020 and mistakes are still being made today. IF it wasn’t for the administration in charge prior, we wouldn’t have a vaccine. End of story.

Are you suggesting that Pfizer wouldn't have developed their vaccine had the previous administration been different or what? Your statement might reflect your opinion but that's not really what the evidence demonstrates. Trump's Warp Speed investment in research or development didn't involve Pfizer like it did Moderna.  Pfizer developed their vaccine independently from the federal government. You could look that up.  It's a good thing that the government invested in that stuff but let's stick to facts. 

15 minutes ago, Mini2544 said:

You can try to argue semantics but this current one can’t even get the story straight on booster shots.  

If you are basing your thinking on what this administration's public health experts are saying, then you are, again, mistaken.  

 

18 minutes ago, Mini2544 said:

The original point of my comment is that I have seen a heck of a lot of nurses publically say they hospitals should turn away unvaccinated patients.  So if we are going to put energy into holding nurses responsible for violating our code of ethics… we should include those too.

No. They aren't even remotely similar.  You hearing nurses expressing frustration is not the same as you encountering nurses spreading propaganda and misinformation which leads to more frustration among the nurses caring for covid patients and concerned about our stressed health system. 

[Mini2544, ASN, RN]

13 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Are you suggesting that Pfizer wouldn't have developed their vaccine had the previous administration been different or what? Your statement might reflect your opinion but that's not really what the evidence demonstrates. Trump's Warp Speed investment in research or development didn't involve Pfizer like it did Moderna.  Pfizer developed their vaccine independently from the federal government. You could look that up.  It's a good thing that the government invested in that stuff but let's stick to facts. 

If you are basing your thinking on what this administration's public health experts are saying, then you are, again, mistaken.  

 

No. They aren't even remotely similar.  You hearing nurses expressing frustration is not the same as you encountering nurses spreading propaganda and misinformation which leads to more frustration among the nurses caring for covid patients and concerned about our stressed health system. 

1) Pfizer 100% took operation warp speed money for production.  They may not have needed it for development but they also took advantage of the expedited FDA process, Which is the main point of Warp Speed. Not just the funding. It’s so funny you focus on Pfizer though. Modernas vaccine which is more effective than Pfizer actually was fully funded by OWS and NIAID.  Can’t forget about poor J&J too but I haven’t given up hope on that vax yet. Results will be better once the booster is approved.  This current administration operates like typical politicians.  They are all the same. Getting rid of government waste and unnecessary regulations aren’t really in their political DNA.  That’s why OWS was effective.  
 

2) nurses venting frustrations is one thing. I understand that.  That’s not what I was referring to but you are more than welcome to try and skirt about my point.  Even at our worst point in my large Florida hospital system, we were at about 35% total inpatient, covid positive. Which means the other 65% were there for other reasons. I’m sure those folks life choices played a part in their health situation.  About 90% of our sickest covid patients had a BMI over 30, I think that’s just as big of a problem as folks not getting vaccinated. 

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, Mini2544 said:

Pfizer 100% took operation warp speed money for production.  They may not have needed it for development but they also took advantage of the expedited FDA process, Which is the main point of Warp Speed. Not just the funding. It’s so funny you focus on Pfizer though

It's not funny or some odd coincidence that I focused upon Pfizer because, as you agree, Pfizer would have brought a vaccine to market regardless of government contracts for vaccine purchase and delivery. It's in direct response to your incorrect assertion that there would be no vaccine had it not been for the last American president. That's absurd.

 

1 hour ago, Mini2544 said:

nurses venting frustrations is one thing. I understand that.  That’s not what I was referring to but you are more than welcome to try and skirt about my point.  Even at our worst point in my large Florida hospital system, we were at about 35% total inpatient, covid positive. Which means the other 65% were there for other reasons. I’m sure those folks life choices played a part in their health situation.  About 90% of our sickest covid patients had a BMI over 30, I think that’s just as big of a problem as folks not getting vaccinated. 

Are you trying to make the point that covid isn't really overwhelming our health systems...everything else is? That's it? 

Do you think that it's as easy to prevent serious consequences of obesity or heart disease or diabetes as it is to prevent serious consequences of covid? Is that what you think?

[Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN]

23 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Do you think that it's as easy to prevent serious consequences of obesity or heart disease or diabetes as it is to prevent serious consequences of covid? Is that what you think?

This is, alas, exactly what a lot of the folks inculcated with whataboutism do think. "What about somebody who eats a lot of junk food and comes to the ER w/ CP? Do we turn him away because he brought it on himself?" No, we don't....but we also don't worry that he's going to give CHF to anybody else, and everybody in his church or social club is going to have CHF they caught from him.

A modicum of critical thinking would enlighten them about the differences between my visiting my neighbor with CHF and or being in a clinic with a lot of unmasked CHF patients and my not catching it, and being unmasked in a room with a lot of unmasked SARS-COVID patients.

Get the damn shot and wear a mask. If not for yourself, then to protect your neighbors, friends, and patients from you.

[jive turkey]

On 9/26/2021 at 2:10 PM, Mini2544 said:

Same thing. Point is, he has openly questioned both of those current guidelines.  
well, while we are limiting care to those who are partially responsible.. why should we stop with those not vaccinated for Covid? Maybe overweight people who have massive heart attacks? Drug overdose victims? Criminals shot by the police? Victim of a car crash where they are at fault? I mean where does it stop? Triaging patients is based on survival. Not how they ended up there and whether the blame lies on the patient or not. 

Thank you!

People don't realize how dangerous a precedent they set when promoting the concept of using healthcare to discriminate and retaliate against people. If a murderer and pedophile can get medical care, so can an unvaccinated person.

2 hours ago, Hannahbanana said:

 

Get the damn shot and wear a mask. If not for yourself, then to protect your neighbors, friends, and patients from you.

If you want THIS vaccine, took it and have protection, what harm comes to you from the unvaccinated person?  Especially someone that's already had the virus? 

[Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN]

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

 

On 9/26/2021 at 5:10 PM, Mini2544 said:

3 hours ago, Hannahbanana said:

 

If you want THIS vaccine, took it and have protection, what harm comes to you from the unvaccinated person?  Especially someone that's already had the virus? 

 

Even if vaccinated, one can acquire and carry the virus to spread it, although it is becoming abundantly clear that if one does fall ill after having had vaccination the illness is likely to be mild and almost certainly will not result in hospitalization or death. An unvaccinated person may carry a higher viral load and can spread it to others, especially the people most at risk if serious illness: children, the immunosuppressed chief among them. 
You ask what harm comes to me? Harm one, harm all.  Ask not for whom the bell tolls. 

[jive turkey]

2 hours ago, Hannahbanana said:

1.Even if vaccinated, one can acquire and carry the virus to spread it, although it is becoming abundantly clear that if one does fall ill after having had vaccination the illness is likely to be mild and almost certainly will not result in hospitalization or death.

2.An unvaccinated person may carry a higher viral load and can spread it to others, especially the people most at risk if serious illness: children, the immunosuppressed chief among them. 
You ask what harm comes to me? Harm one, harm all.  Ask not for whom the bell tolls. 

1. Exactly.  So why act as if the unvaccinated person is to blame for everything other than the consequences of not tolerating the live infection without the vaccine?

2. Not according to the CDC. According to them Delta loads are similar in both.  What's left is the report of vaccinated people having shorter shedding periods.  That does speak to your point.  It's not enough to put all the blame on unvaccinated people. I would not favor someone who may need the vaccine using these facts as reasons to defer either

Considering the information is evolving and new information is emerging, I disagree with blanket mandates, treating the unvaccinated as solely responsible for the pandemic, and ostracizing them.  It certainly doesn't encourage them to get the shot.