Nurses, physicians weigh in on new doctoral nurse degree

Specialties Doctoral

Published

New Degree Creates Doctor Nurses-And Confusion

All Things Considered, February 22, 2009

No one wants to badmouth Florence Nightingale, but a new degree for nurses is causing bad blood between doctors and their longtime colleagues. The program confers the title of doctor on nurses, but some in the medical profession say only physicians should call themselves "doctor."

Dr. Steven Knope is a family practitioner in Tucson, Ariz. "If you're on an airline," he jokes, "and a poet with a Ph.D. is there and somebody has a heart attack, and they say 'Is there a doctor in the house?'-should the poet stand up?" Knope laughs. "Of course not."

Physicians such as Knope say the title of doctor implies a certain amount of training, hours in medical school that nurses just don't have. Dr. Ted Epperly, president of the American Association of Family Practitioners, says that while doctors place a high value on nurses, sharing the same title could confuse-and even harm-patients.

Full Story and listen to radio show here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100921215

Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
The difference is that physicians and NP's are performing the same role and this is confusing to patients. Obviously, a Dr. PT can't diagnose and prescribe medicine, same with the PharmD. However, both a Dr. MD and a Dr. NP diagnose and prescribe medication...our roles are more similar than not. Also, I understand why physicians are PO'd by all of this...how would YOU like to spend all that time in med school and then do a 3 year residence and then compete with a NP with half the training??

True, about a similar (or same) role. I guess I don't care too much about MDs and primary care because I really don't think MDs are necessary for primary care. I don't believe it takes 11-12 years of higher ed and residency to manage primary care well. It seems to be a role made for APNs. And since so few MDs want to go into primary care now, it works for APNs to take on this role. Those MDs going into primary care aren't doing it for the money, that's for sure. They make their choices.

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Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
I'll believe it when I see something from the Arizona Board of Nursing saying that. ;)

The link was from the Arizona Nurse Practioner Council.

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
The link was from the Arizona Nurse Practioner Council.

Right, and the Arizona Nurse Practitioner Council is not the Arizona Board of Nursing. Am I not understanding something?

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Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
The difference is that physicians and NP's are performing the same role and this is confusing to patients. Obviously, a Dr. PT can't diagnose and prescribe medicine, same with the PharmD. However, both a Dr. MD and a Dr. NP diagnose and prescribe medication...our roles are more similar than not. Also, I understand why physicians are PO'd by all of this...how would YOU like to spend all that time in med school and then do a 3 year residence and then compete with a NP with half the training??

First, they are NOT doing the same thing.

NP's are significantly more limited in practice than a physician.

They sure as heck don't get the paycheck that a physician does.

One of my close, high-school friends got her OB-GYN about 4 years ago. Last year she CLEARED about $240K

I seriously doubt if a CNM or a DNP with a specialty in women's health and delivery are going to pull down those numbers.

Because the scope of practice is NOT the same.

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Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
Right, and the Arizona Nurse Practitioner Council is not the Arizona Board of Nursing. Am I not understanding something?

So, why would the Arizona Nurse Practitioner Council misinform their NP's in a publication?

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
So, why would the Arizona Nurse Practitioner Program misinform their NP's in a publication?

The "Arizona Nurse Practitioner Council" is not a licensing agency with legal authority like the Arizona Board of Nursing. It is a professional organization, no doubt with elected board members probably comprised of professors at the Colleges of Nursing pushing the new degree and the AACN's non-legally binding 2015 deadline. Just because the professional organization says it is so does not make it so until the board of nursing enacts new legal requirements.

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Specializes in ER, Trauma, Combat, EMS and Flight.

In 1992 before PanAm became defunct, I was returning from Hawaii. I was in first class and tthen I was allowed to take aborad my ACLS equipment.

Two hours into the flight, a passenger suffered acute chest pain. The captain called for a "doctor" on board..........and three appeared. A dermatologist, an oral surgeon and another non-critical care specialist. The three of them fumbled and none of them appeared o know how to assess the patient. By that time I had my monitor on, and O2 a hand......and my ACLS box open and ready.

I made my way to the patient with the paddles at the ready....ripped the man's shirt open and placed them on his chest..........saw severe bradycardia.........placed him on O2 and dispatched a dose of Atropine. Then kept him on the O2 and monitor.

When the purser came over to disband the "observers", I introduced myself...and to the spouse of the patient who by now was stable and sat by him the rest of the way.

Having the well earned "Doctor" does not guarantee you a life-saving person. It has no bearing on what your skills are. I was a flight nurse returning from delivering a CA patient to his home to die.

I now deliver aeromedical certification courses all over Latinamerica........to Doctors...nurses and medics.

Manny

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In 1992 before PanAm became defunct, I was returning from Hawaii. I was in first class and tthen I was allowed to take aborad my ACLS equipment.

Two hours into the flight, a passenger suffered acute chest pain. The captain called for a "doctor" on board..........and three appeared. A dermatologist, an oral surgeon and another non-critical care specialist. The three of them fumbled and none of them appeared o know how to assess the patient. By that time I had my monitor on, and O2 a hand......and my ACLS box open and ready.

I made my way to the patient with the paddles at the ready....ripped the man's shirt open and placed them on his chest..........saw severe bradycardia.........placed him on O2 and dispatched a dose of Atropine. Then kept him on the O2 and monitor.

When the purser came over to disband the "observers", I introduced myself...and to the spouse of the patient who by now was stable and sat by him the rest of the way.

Having the well earned "Doctor" does not guarantee you a life-saving person. It has no bearing on what your skills are. I was a flight nurse returning from delivering a CA patient to his home to die.

I now deliver aeromedical certification courses all over Latinamerica........to Doctors...nurses and medics.

Manny

What a beautiful and inspiring story! Thank you for sharing. :clphnds: feliz3

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Actually, depending on what the physician's specialty is, you just may be better off with the nurse on the plane than with the physician.

So very true

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Here's the best rebuttal to this guy's arrogant attitude: http://www.design.caltech.edu/erik/Misc/Doctors.html

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First, they are NOT doing the same thing.

NP's are significantly more limited in practice than a physician.

They sure as heck don't get the paycheck that a physician does.

One of my close, high-school friends got her OB-GYN about 4 years ago. Last year she CLEARED about $240K

I seriously doubt if a CNM or a DNP with a specialty in women's health and delivery are going to pull down those numbers.

Because the scope of practice is NOT the same.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't referring to the specialties, I was referring to primary care. We can replace primary care doctors in a New York second. I know b/c I do it every day!

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True, about a similar (or same) role. I guess I don't care too much about MDs and primary care because I really don't think MDs are necessary for primary care. I don't believe it takes 11-12 years of higher ed and residency to manage primary care well. It seems to be a role made for APNs. And since so few MDs want to go into primary care now, it works for APNs to take on this role. Those MDs going into primary care aren't doing it for the money, that's for sure. They make their choices.

You're absolutely right. I sure as heck wouldn't go into primary care if I were selecting a MD residency! In fact, I've heard several medical students specifically say they've been told to steer clear of primary care b/c they WILL be replaced by a more "cost effective" nurse practitioner. Fine by me, that's the reason I became a NP...I LOVE primary care!

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