Nurses, perception difference and education

[pedicurn]

Anyone else tired of this ???

I have this view that nursing is a mixture of : highly skilled, trade,vocation, art and profession.

Thus it is quite possible to be a strong RN without much generic professional development which leads to perception difference.

I see this perception difference as one of the sticky issues on my unit as it seems to be part of the mix whenever there is conflict.

People tire of constantly needing to be aware of this perception difference and the requirement to accommodate it.

I would assert that it's inappropriate for these differences to remain if nursing is to be a real profession. I would further assert that perception will be more unified when nursing education is unified and a more rigorous approach applied to standards (both educational and program entrance)

[merlee]

Okay. How much time is wasted on actual nursing care issues??? The pt is SOB, has moderate pedal edema, crackles in the lungs from just below the shoulder blades. Do different nurses have different decisions 'trees' on how to deal with this?

Your example was not really a 'nursing' issue. Stick with true nursing issues to get clearer answers.

And dump the juice down the drain. JMHO!!!!

[pedicurn, LPN, RN]

I agree with you on not throwing away personal belongings but if the individual in question is an alcoholic, he/she will drink the entire bottle within a day or two and use the money to purchase more of it. I think they would be consumed by the addiction and ignore their need for the medications you described.

I doubt giving the bottle back (it's their belonging anyway!) will result in them being compliant with their medications. And if they are compliant initially, how long does it last before they end at the hospital's revolving door?

Actually no - many of our p'ts like this do manage to take their meds a lot of the time.

We are not going to be able to fix many of them. But what we can do is try to maintain their delicate balance to keep them functioning and out of the hospital. It's what happens in the short term that will determine whether he comes back in two days

To answer your question 'how long does it last before they end at the hospital's revolving door'?

Likely we see him again after two months - instead of two days.

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

I'm trying to understand your POV here.

But what will happen is that nurses will move onto the same page and a more common perspective will be the order of the day. Similar to what we see with professionals who have more education eg doctors.

People who have more education can and do vehemently disagree with each other. I'm not sure where you got the idea that educated people all have a common perspective. They have a similar knowledge base, yes, but conclusions drawn on complicated situations are not always the same.

In other words, two very smart people can be presented the same problem and can come up with two different solutions. It happens all the time, in every industry and profession. This phenomenon is the foundation for innovation and creativity, and it's influenced by styles, personalities, beliefs, and experience. And, yes, knowledge base, of course, but it's also more than that.

I think this phenomenon can elevate a profession, not lower it.

[roser13, ASN, RN]

I'm trying to understand your POV here.

People who have more education can and do vehemently disagree with each other. I'm not sure where you got the idea that educated people all have a common perspective. They have a similar knowledge base, yes, but conclusions drawn on complicated situations are not always the same.

In other words, two very smart people can be presented the same problem and can come up with two different solutions. It happens all the time, in every industry and profession. This phenomenon is the foundation for innovation and creativity, and it's influenced by styles, personalities, beliefs, and experience. And, yes, knowledge base, of course, but it's also more than that.

I think this phenomenon can elevate a profession, not lower it.

What she said...........

[roser13, ASN, RN]

"When we state the degree of analytical endeavor we pay to any particular nursing problem is dependent on our nursing styles, personalities and beliefs .... then I believe we have lost the plot as a profession."

Well, then, count me out as a nursing professional. Show me any other "profession" that does not take individual judgment into account and expects its professionals to act according to a pre-planned algorithm or paradigm without use of intellect or experiential judgment and I will show you a non-professional profession.

Ironically, while you appear to be advocating higher education for the nursing profession, it seems to me that you are inadvertently advocating a structure that disallows nursing judgment.

And (gasp) I'm an ADN-prepared RN.

[pedicurn, LPN, RN]

I'm trying to understand your POV here.

People who have more education can and do vehemently disagree with each other. I'm not sure where you got the idea that educated people all have a common perspective. They have a similar knowledge base, yes, but conclusions drawn on complicated situations are not always the same.

In other words, two very smart people can be presented the same problem and can come up with two different solutions. It happens all the time, in every industry and profession. This phenomenon is the foundation for innovation and creativity, and it's influenced by styles, personalities, beliefs, and experience. And, yes, knowledge base, of course, but it's also more than that.

I think this phenomenon can elevate a profession, not lower it.

Agree

However that was not what I was referring to.

My initial post was about differences of perception due to nurse educational differences and was making the argument that a variation of generic professional skill (relating specifically to how we handle information) results in differences that we don't need

[pedicurn, LPN, RN]

" Show me any other "profession" that does not take individual judgment into account and expects its professionals to act according to a pre-planned algorithm or paradigm without use of intellect or experiential judgment and I will show you a non-professional profession.

Ironically, while you appear to be advocating higher education for the nursing profession, it seems to me that you are inadvertently advocating a structure that disallows nursing judgment.

.

Yes you are quite correct ... agree

Intellect is a big part of it.

Perception relates to intellect

The nurses with the broader perception I am advocating for have good intellect.

Without intellect and related broader perception we cannot be real professionals

[roser13, ASN, RN]

Yes you are quite correct ... agree

Intellect is a big part of it.

Perception relates to intellect

The nurses with the broader perception I am advocating for have good intellect.

Without intellect and related broader perception we cannot be real professionals

As long as their intellect agrees with your perception (per your given example)?

[pedicurn, LPN, RN]

As long as their intellect agrees with your perception (per your given example)?

Not at all

As long as their perception originates from the same playing field

[roser13, ASN, RN]

And so we come back to the beginning argument: All equally-educated nurses will/should have the same approach to any given patient-care issue, due to the fact that his/her intellect/perception originates from an equivalent education to alll of his/her peers.

DIS agree

[MillieT]

Well, I would think as an "educated" nurse, you would realize the negative effects of alcoholism, which are cocommittent with heart disease, liver disease, bleeding disorders and diabetes.

As an educated nurse, throwing out the alchol or not does not matter. Educating the patient about the effects of alcoholism and finding recovery resources are more important than that issue.

Alcoholism is just as bad as not affording your metformin, and is actually the cause of not being able to obtain the metformin in your example and that is the issue that needs to be addressed.

The point is, if the pt is truly an alcoholic and will buy alcohol over medications, by saving his alcohol, you are really only buying him a few days of time. The nature of the disease will eliminate all health care priorites as the need for alcohol increases.

[pedicurn, LPN, RN]

And so we come back to the beginning argument: All equally-educated nurses will/should have the same approach to any given patient-care issue, due to the fact that his/her intellect/perception originates from an equivalent education to alll of his/her peers.

Similar playing field .... just like doctors, engineers etc.

I fail to see the issue with that. Works well for the others

Nothing wrong with more nurses attaining some basic generic professional skill as well as their professional nursing skill.

You know we have an issue when we receive a variety of response from new nurses regarding the difficulty of their state boards.

Hearing 'it was way too easy it was pathetic, I can't believe I went to university for this' is as bad as hearing 'oh my goodness, it was the most difficult thing I have ever done' ... both make me cringe.