Nurses not on the Canada Skilled list this time around

McLovin' · Jun 3, 2013

CodeteamB is correct and Fiona hadn't quoted clearly. Canada is getting tougher to immigrate to and in some provinces that may be good and in others where demand remains higher is bad.
Being someone who initially had a job in the US but affected by retrogression had the opportunity to move to Canada and as far as I am concerned the best thing we ever did. Within 2 months of moving here my application to the US was cancelled with no regrets (now 5 years down the line) and received PR at the beginning of the year and plan to become a citizen in 2015. I think it is sad that people use Canada as a stepping stone to the US but it is their loss. We can't change this but we can be proud it what we accomplish

I'd like to be clear regarding the "stepping stone" statement here.

Undeniably, Canada is a very beautiful and respectable country folks, (even though I have no basis of comparison because I come from a 3rd world country and this is the one I have ever stepped foot on) and I have nothing but good things to say about being a resident in Canada. Education is superb, the transportation system is astounding, health care system is stellar and people seemed nice… except for one dreadful thing – looking for a first job and practicing your profession. Enduring the settling process coupled with the realization of having your credentials compared to something mediocre and non-equivalent to Canadian standards and is required to take a bridging program and SOMETIMES, studying all over again, is very, VERY disappointing and at some point, insulting. As IEN's, we believe that we are more than capable of doing our jobs. I am also aware that there are communication barriers, practice and institutional standards that we have to get used to. Hence we have our IELTS results as well as related nursing experiences. Preceptor ship is a much better route here, instead of a bridging program. But of course, your backyard, your rules. I cannot see why my education and work experience were discarded. Personally, even the nursing colleges’ assessments and evaluations are highly questionable.

As new immigrants, we were invited because of our skill sets, our abilities. Tragically, the reasons why we were granted permanent residencies are the exact same reasons why we cannot get respectable, decent jobs and cannot practice our profession. And these my friends, are something not to be taken lightly. I have witnessed first hand medical doctors, engineers, PhD's working as burger flippers and taxi drivers. What a waste! God knows we want to settle and permanently live in Canada. But if we cannot work in our invested fields, we have no choice but to move someplace else.

I absolutely resent your statement that you think it is sad that people use Canada as a stepping stone to the US and it is our loss is highly misdirected and misinterpreted. We are people that have our own preference. And if we decide to move to some place that we are recognized as professionals, then I guess you can’t really say something that would make us (IEN’s) appear as some form of a parasite and manipulator.

Thank you.

Silverdragon102, BSN · Jun 3, 2013

As new immigrants, we were invited because of our skill sets, our abilities. Tragically, the reasons why we were granted permanent residencies are the exact same reasons why we cannot get respectable, decent jobs and cannot practice our profession. And these my friends, are something not to be taken lightly. I have witnessed first hand medical doctors, engineers, PhD's working as burger flippers and taxi drivers. What a waste! God knows we want to settle and permanently live in Canada. But if we cannot work in our invested fields, we have no choice but to move someplace else.
I absolutely resent your statement that you think it is sad that people use Canada as a stepping stone to the US and it is our loss is highly misdirected and misinterpreted. We are people that have our own preference. And if we decide to move to some place that we are recognized as professionals, then I guess you can’t really say something that would make us (IEN’s) appear as some form of a parasite and manipulator.
Thank you.

But I am a IEN and we see it all the time where a country has to have it's requirements met. The US is the same in regards to immigrant doctors not being able to work. Do I think it is a shame certainly but we (as all immigrants) chose to come to the country not invited because of skill set. We are also seeing problems now with at least 13 states where nurses training in certain countries have been an issue and they are now not meeting the state requirements and for many they are being told to make up hours in certain areas and there is very few places in the US to make these hours up, so it isn't just Canada that is having issues. UK nurses are having to have bridging programs so it isn't just certain countries but in most provinces all countries are affected.

We have seen it time and time again of people admitting to using Canada as a stepping stone and they haven't even arrived into Canada so Yes I do think it is a shame when Canada is used like this. I have no issues if immigrants come over, work and then decide to move on it is the using of Canada before they have even arrived here that I think is wrong.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jun 4, 2013

I think the lesson to be learned here is that dreams and aspirations are well and good but knowing what you're getting yourself into is just as important if not the most important part of the details you must get acquainted to. I know coming from a third world country myself that at some point in your life while living in so much poverty and desperation around you, thoughts of "nothing could be any worse than this place" emerge. You get enticed with thoughts of a better place.

But there is a price when arriving in a new country with their own rules. You then realize that your pride is dashed and you face a whole new set of hardships. That's why it's important to know this information beforehand. I believe that posters in the US and Canada do try to paint a realistic picture without sugarcoating it. It is a hard pill to swallow but it's the fact and not being here to see it firsthand yet, IEN's who have not migrated yet should take heed. I wish you good luck McLovin' in whatever you plan to do. It's been a hard and bumpy road for most of us including myself.

iamnomad · Jun 4, 2013

I think Canada is on the right track when they put the educational assessment requirement for FSW immigration. It's a win-win situation for both the Government of Canada and the applicants. Canada is assured that immigrants are "job-ready" and the applicants can actually start finding work without the fear of being required to do some sort of bridging program. Australia has this as a requirement for many years now for the skilled independent permanent visa.

I also think that it's just fair if one country's BON requires applicant to do some more training if the education is lacking. After all, it's their job to ensure public safety by regulating these professions.

loriangel14, RN · Jun 4, 2013

You have a good point. Undergoing the assessment can increase an IENs confidence when job hunting if they have been assessed and they have passed or done the extra required.It really wouldn't be fair to give someone the green light and then have them fail because they weren't prepared.They really are doing the IENs a favor.

McLovin' · Jun 4, 2013

You have a good point. Undergoing the assessment can increase an IENs confidence when job hunting if they have been assessed and they have passed or done the extra required.It really wouldn't be fair to give someone the green light and then have them fail because they weren't prepared.They really are doing the IENs a favor.

Perhaps. And don't get me wrong I am all for that because it is for our own good. But letting IEN's invest a considerable amount of time and money for this is truly uncalled for. 2 years? Even 4 sometimes? With an average tuition fee of around $25-$30 grand per semester? Total mind-blower. I understand Canada's protocols and standards, but I still believe that there is a fine line between streamlining a candidate and an obvious money-making scheme. 6 months (similar to AU) is acceptable, a year is fine.. But two to four? Personally, I think that is too much... Considering the exposure and duties we underwent. And I am pretty sure we are using the same books.

Just because we are in a third world country does not instantaneously apply that the same perception reflects our education system. FYI, I graduated with a K-12 standard back home. But did they acknowledge it here in Canada? Of course not.

McLovin' · Jun 4, 2013

But I am a IEN and we see it all the time where a country has to have it's requirements met. The US is the same in regards to immigrant doctors not being able to work. Do I think it is a shame certainly but we (as all immigrants) chose to come to the country not invited because of skill set. We are also seeing problems now with at least 13 states where nurses training in certain countries have been an issue and they are now not meeting the state requirements and for many they are being told to make up hours in certain areas and there is very few places in the US to make these hours up, so it isn't just Canada that is having issues. UK nurses are having to have bridging programs so it isn't just certain countries but in most provinces all countries are affected.
We have seen it time and time again of people admitting to using Canada as a stepping stone and they haven't even arrived into Canada so Yes I do think it is a shame when Canada is used like this. I have no issues if immigrants come over, work and then decide to move on it is the using of Canada before they have even arrived here that I think is wrong.

Well then good for the U.S. At least they are now one with the world in making things challenging for IEN's to practice in their respective regions. I see no problems with that. Like I said, whatever floats their boat. And I agree that some people, but not all, use Canada as a stepping stone into the U.S. But painfully, some individuals are forced to transfer to other countries where transition to nursing practice is Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Realistic and most definitely Time-bound.

McLovin' · Jun 4, 2013

I think Canada is on the right track when they put the educational assessment requirement for FSW immigration. It's a win-win situation for both the Government of Canada and the applicants. Canada is assured that immigrants are "job-ready" and the applicants can actually start finding work without the fear of being required to do some sort of bridging program. Australia has this as a requirement for many years now for the skilled independent permanent visa.
I also think that it's just fair if one country's BON requires applicant to do some more training if the education is lacking. After all, it's their job to ensure public safety by regulating these professions.

With all due respect, I think you got it the other way around sir/ma'm. :unsure:

To illuminate you further, when I applied for a PR, I got a perfect score in the education category due to the fact that I have two degrees, one in Computer Science and another in Nursing. It was flawless. But when the time came that I got assessed by ICES in B.C., I was only considered of having an associate's degree (2 year diploma course). Suddenly things became clear to me, maybe the Canadian government's immigration system is NOT at par with its labor market, as well as its education system. With further research, I learned that this was a constant problem in Canada. The government wants people in to basically contribute to the economy WITHOUT taking into consideration the "preparedness" of these new immigrants to practice their professions. This is evident through the continuing 'changes' in immigration policies in the past 5-6 years. As early as I can remember, needed jobs in Canada was around 40. Each class accommodated 1,000 applicants. But recently, it was changed to only 300 slots with only 19 job skills needed with an emphasis on people who are already IN Canada, with an employer holding a working visa. Why? Because they are aware of the difficulties new settlers are bombarded with.

McLovin' · Jun 4, 2013

I think the lesson to be learned here is that dreams and aspirations are well and good but knowing what you're getting yourself into is just as important if not the most important part of the details you must get acquainted to. I know coming from a third world country myself that at some point in your life while living in so much poverty and desperation around you, thoughts of "nothing could be any worse than this place" emerge. You get enticed with thoughts of a better place.
But there is a price when arriving in a new country with their own rules. You then realize that your pride is dashed and you face a whole new set of hardships. That's why it's important to know this information beforehand. I believe that posters in the US and Canada do try to paint a realistic picture without sugarcoating it. It is a hard pill to swallow but it's the fact and not being here to see it firsthand yet, IEN's who have not migrated yet should take heed. I wish you good luck McLovin' in whatever you plan to do. It's been a hard and bumpy road for most of us including myself.

Thank you sir for the vote of confidence. I admit, my greatest mistake here was having less information regarding professional transitions in Canada. Having acquired this knowledge prior to applying, I wouldn't have pushed through with my application in the first place. I just realized that AU had a better bridging program for IEN's which was indeed S.M.A.R.T.

Nothing to do but charge this to experience.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jun 4, 2013

You know, you do have a point McLovin'. But realize that these are political machinations, federal or state governments do. I'm sure you realize that no one in this forum has anything to do with these changes. I understand your frustration. In most cases, timing and luck makes a difference. I can certainly speak of that from experience. I too had great grades from nursing school and passed every exam required to get into the US on my first attempt. I got in with a working visa in 1995 which was abruptly stopped by the US congress right before my visa's expiration date. Nurses in my situation were being threatened to be sent back with no chance of renewal. Prior to that, older nurses from the Philippines who arrived years before have been telling us to expect the worst and that things can change all of a sudden because we're at the whim of laws to suit shifting economic climates. I should have listened and applied for a permanent residence from the start. After a year in limbo, things did work out and nurses like myself found a legal way to eventually receive our permanent residence. I have become a citizen of the US as I didn't harbor ill feelings about all the expenses and heartaches of going through immigration. It ended up being great for me looking back. Hope you have the same luck.

McLovin' · Jun 4, 2013

You know, you do have a point McLovin'. But realize that these are political machinations, federal or state governments do. I'm sure you realize that no one in this forum has anything to do with these changes. I understand your frustration. In most cases, timing and luck makes a difference. I can certainly speak of that from experience. I too had great grades from nursing school and passed every exam required to get into the US on my first attempt. I got in with a working visa in 1995 which was abruptly stopped by the US congress right before my visa's expiration date. Nurses in my situation were being threatened to be sent back with no chance of renewal. Prior to that, older nurses from the Philippines who arrived years before have been telling us to expect the worst and that things can change all of a sudden because we're at the whim of laws to suit shifting economic climates. I should have listened and applied for a permanent residence from the start. After a year in limbo, things did work out and nurses like myself found a legal way to eventually receive our permanent residence. I have become a citizen of the US as I didn't harbor ill feelings about all the expenses and heartaches of going through immigration. It ended up being great for me looking back. Hope you have the same luck.

Very inspiring story sir. Thank you. Things will definitely improve, in time. Nevertheless, I will wait. No matter how long it may be.

kismetRN · Aug 12, 2013

whew! got me wanting to put up a peace sign somewhere while reading some heated exchange of discussions.

seriously, I hate the Filipino trait of being overly sensitive. Kabayan, let's not show the world that we can't take a hit.

"You don't have to disrespect and insult others simply to hold your own ground. If you do - that shows how shaky your own position is."