Nurses belligerent towards MDs

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

I was talking to one of our hospitalists yesterday. He and another doctor were talking about different experiences they had had elsewhere. This hospitalist said that when he was back in Philly, the nurses were the dominant force in the hospital and routinely yelled at and intimidated the doctors. This was a new twist on things because when I read here, it seems to be nurses complaining about abuse by MDs.

I'm very thankful for the relationships we have with the MDs where I work, which are based on mutual respect and congeniality (usually). Has anyone here experienced what this doctor describes?

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Specializes in Med-Surg.

It's a team effort here as well, but for the interns and residents. I've seen nurses throw their weight around and disrespect them or even ignore them, but not yell. I've even seen secretaries disrespect interns. Sometimes I wonder if this isn't where MD's opinions of nurses begins. I've never seen yelling between doctors and nurses on any level fortunately.

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.
It's a team effort here as well, but for the interns and residents. I've seen nurses throw their weight around and disrespect them or even ignore them, but not yell. I've even seen secretaries disrespect interns. Sometimes I wonder if this isn't where MD's opinions of nurses begins. I've never seen yelling between doctors and nurses on any level fortunately.

You have a good insight there. I think that he did his internship and residency at that hospital. He, however, is easy to work with and a gentleman. But I'll bet some doctors get an attitude after getting eaten alive by some hardcore nurses when they are learning the trade. You have a good point.

We all need to nurture one another, I think.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.
I was talking to one of our hospitalists yesterday. He and another doctor were talking about different experiences they had had elsewhere. This hospitalist said that when he was back in Philly, the nurses were the dominant force in the hospital and routinely yelled at and intimidated the doctors. This was a new twist on things because when I read here, it seems to be nurses complaining about abuse by MDs.

I'm very thankful for the relationships we have with the MDs where I work, which are based on mutual respect and congeniality (usually). Has anyone here experienced what this doctor describes?

No, never, and I seriously seriously doubt it was like that at this hospital either. In teaching hospitals, I have sometimes observed nurses who were less than deferential towards the residents and med students and perhaps a few of them were even "mean" but I don't believe that it was a system of abuse. Belligerent is a matter of perception anyway and in my observation if you are not willing to play your part as the submissive nurse to the all-powerful physician then you are pegged as "having an attitude", "chip on your shoulder", "mean" or "difficult".

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.
No, never, and I seriously seriously doubt it was like that at this hospital either. In teaching hospitals, I have sometimes observed nurses who were less than deferential towards the residents and med students and perhaps a few of them were even "mean" but I don't believe that it was a system of abuse. Belligerent is a matter of perception anyway and in my observation if you are not willing to play your part as the submissive nurse to the all-powerful physician then you are pegged as "having an attitude", "chip on your shoulder", "mean" or "difficult".

Wow, I've never encountered this at all. This doctor is a very fine fellow who is a gentleman and I don't think he's making this up. I also don't find doctors to be expecting me to defer to their god-like status. They usually know more than I do, however, but they value my professional observations and imput, it appears to me.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
I was talking to one of our hospitalists yesterday. He and another doctor were talking about different experiences they had had elsewhere. This hospitalist said that when he was back in Philly, the nurses were the dominant force in the hospital and routinely yelled at and intimidated the doctors.

This of course is the reason there's a shortage of hospitalists.

*sarcasm*

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.
This of course is the reason there's a shortage of hospitalists.

*sarcasm*

Excuse me?

I must be dense, but I don't get your drift.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.
Wow, I've never encountered this at all. This doctor is a very fine fellow who is a gentleman and I don't think he's making this up. I also don't find doctors to be expecting me to defer to their god-like status. They usually know more than I do, however, but they value my professional observations and imput, it appears to me.

Oh I'm sure he wasn't making it up....as I said it is a matter of perception. I am sure that he really believed what he was saying. You state that you have never met a physician expecting you to defer to him/her and that they value your observations? Well you have been extraordinarily lucky in that regard because that is not the experience of most nurses and I am very experienced and I've seen quite a bit. That doesn't mean that every physician I've met has devalued nurses and has been rude or mean; they are people just like anyone else and some are nice and/or professional, some are not.

At any rate, I certainly wouldn't be taking on the responsibility for "nurturing" them. I also wouldn't attribute their bad attitudes towards nurses to their experiences with nurses as residents (with all due respect to Tweety). Many of them act the way they do because of their own individual personalities and because they can get way with it. Some of them start medical school or finish medical school with crappy demeanors and attitudes. You just take care of you and they will take care of themselves, trust me.

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For the most part our MDs and nurses get along well, but there is always that one (i know you know what i'm talking about haha) nurse who is just a bit out of control and harsh with how she/he (a she where i work) talks to the docs as well as the rest of the staff. We are all used to it, so we basically ignore the occasional harsh words. I just don't understand how she can be happy like that. I am so thankful for the great team working relationship the majority of us have. It makes working life so much easier and less stressful when we back each other up.

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

Oh, I've encountered rude MDs, but I never took it that they were doing it for any reason other than their own personality flaws. I've actually had more trouble with my fellow nurses. I've had the most trouble with CNAs and unit secretaries.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
Excuse me?

I must be dense, but I don't get your drift.

I was being sarcastic. There was a recent study done that stated that one of the reasons for the nursing shortage was due to poor doctor/nurse relationships. If I can find the link, I'll post it for you.

This isn't the article, but it's on target:

http://www.nursingspectrum.com/CareerManagement/Articles/nursephysician.htm

Here's the article:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0843/is_6_28/ai_94590407

Point is, there is no shortage of hospitalists and I have never heard of any c/o nurses who quit medical school or jobs or careers over maltreatment by nurses, but I have heard of nurses who have quit jobs, changed specialties, or left nursing altogether because of the way they were treated (at least in part) by doctors.

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Specializes in ER/EHR Trainer.

I would imagine any MD treated like an RN may feel like he was"being picked on, or disrespected". Many physicians bring their "godlike" presence to our areas and expect immediate action for their immediate patients without thought to our other assignments.

Respect breeds respect. I always speak to the physicians by their surnames unless invited to use their first name, I treat them the same way. As for the residents, I expect them to do their share of the work. Working in a busy ER keeps me hopping, if they need a stat NG tube(stat because they were told by attending after several hours of me asking) I tell them to do it! That goes for other things within their scope of practice. That saying about, your lack of planning doesn't make it my emergency is very true! Obviously, if a patient is tanking that is the priority, but their lack of planning or forgetfulness will not constitute a quick resolution on my part. I have even taken to crossing out blank areas of orders, so that residents may not come back and insert new orders into earlier orders.

There also seems to be this attitude that physicians have regarding their orders and rights within the hospital. I remember one day receiving a patient (former cardiologist-with alz and parkinsons)-wife was exhausted, kept stating he was altered(had had before-was his usual state). All labs came back normal, all tests normal, pt family kept laying patient down (had dysphagia) causing him to choke. I truly felt they were trying to make him aspirate. Our head of ER(excellent doctor) had him ready for discharge-wife flipped out-called everyone-now all of a sudden he is being admitted with bs illness. Hospitalist comes down, orders tons of meds-I wouldn't give. She threatened me, called my supervisor, told charge-her dx was sepsis. I know her slightly, I know our ER doctor and trust him. It was political-staff pressured because he was a doctor and wife was exhausted. I can respect that part-but don't give the guy medicine for no problem. Our doctor was pissed-hospitalist was pissed because I wouldn't give meds-she couldn't give me proof of sepsis. Told her if she was so worried to hang her iv antibx herself. Needless to say, wasn't written up-not a real illness. No one is going to bully me into doing the wrong thing.

Anyway back to the original post. If nurses are belligerent, I am sure it is to keep doctors like our hospitalist on their toes and from bs orders. Physicians need to look to themselves for the answer, treat us well, and you will receive the same in turn.

Maisy;)

sorry so long

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