Nurse Salary vs. Teacher Salary?

Gentleman_nurse, MSN · May 24, 2009

i taught high school for several years, now i'm changing careers to nursing. wanted to dispel the misconceptions of you post.

"that may be true, but teachers have far better benefits than nurses do, have pensions that they can actually live/retire, on"

depends on the local school district. some offer good retirement plan, some don't.

"control over their class sizes"

class sizes are mandated based on state and local laws. teacher have absolutely no control over this. unfortunately similar to nursing, the pressure is to increase not decrease sizes.

"a union that actually sticks up for them with adminstration."

again depends on the state, and local chapters. i've been told unions have little to no power in the south.

"you don't see teachers having to deal with parents insisting on staying in their child's classroom for the entire school day, and trying to control/interfere in the classroom dynamics on a daily basis. i am not saying that parents cannot be pia's it is just that teachers have the conrol to prevent this from becoming out of control the way it has in hospitals."

the school board and parents have much influence, especially in small school districts.

"nurses wish we had what teachers have."

you can get certification to teach high school nursing. but be careful what you wish for!

Music in My Heart · May 24, 2009

That may be true, but teachers have far better benefits than nurses do, have pensions that they can actually live/retire, on, have control over their class sizes, and have a union that actually sticks up for them with adminstration.

That's a gross overgeneralization, Linda.

We have our medical benefits through my wife's job as a public school teacher and they are quite poor, especially compared to those of the nurses working at our local UNIONIZED HMO. In our case, the district pays only for employees, not for families. Even at that, the deductibles and copays are huge... we just had an MRI on my child and are now hit with out-of-pocket payments over $1,000.

The nurses at the local UNIONIZED HMO have a defined-benefit pension that pays 1.5% of the average of the highest 3 years beginning at 20 years and age 55. The nurses at the UNIONIZED university medical centers get a 2% defined-benefit pension along with lifetime health insurance for themselves and their spouses.

Some nurses in UNIONIZED hospitals around here are doing quite well, and in many cases, better than the teachers at some of the smaller districts.

After 10 years of service and >30 postbaccalaureate units, my wife earns $26.13 per hour as an EXEMPT employee (salaried, no OT). By contrast, the nurses at the university medical centers start at $34 per hour and those lucky enough to get in with the monster HMO start at $43 per hour.

It's different in every school district and with every hospital but the reality is that many teachers are not doing nearly as well as many nurses.

llg, PhD, RN · May 24, 2009

Certainly it does depend on the particulars of the school system, area of the country, etc. But comparing my sister with a Master's in early childhood education and me with a graduate degree in nursing ...

I have always made more cash ... but my sister has always had much, much better benefits. After 30 years of working for the same public school system, she was able to "retire" at the age of 52 with a state pension guaranteeing 60% of her highest salary years for the rest of her life, adjusted annually for inflation. She does a little substitute teaching for extra cash ... essentially making about 90% of her old salary for only working 1 or 2 days per week. She will also qualify for Social Security when she reaches 62 so she won't have to substitute teach any more -- and will still make almost her full salary without working at all.

The taxpayer also paid 100% for her graduate education and her health insurance. With always having her summers off ... she usually earned a little extra money teaching a summer school class in the mornings, leaving the afternoons free for fun. She became the local country club's ladies golf champion. Isn't that nice? Now in her mid-50's, she and her husband (also retired from the public school system) spend a couple of months in a gaited golf community in Florida every winter.

So ... as a nurse, my salary has always been higher. But I have no pension and paid for most of my graduate education myself. I also have a noticable deduction from my paychecks to pay a portion of my health insurance. I will need to work full time until I am at least 62.

So ... while my salary has always been higher than my sister's ... who do you think got the better overall compensation?

But certainly ... it does depend on the particulars. Some nurses earn a lot more than others ... and some teachers earn a lot more than others.

Katnip, RN · May 24, 2009

Teachers are often required to have a Master's degree within a certain time after hire. Some school disctricts require it before hire. And they have to deal with a lot of crap about being unable to fail a student whether the kid can pass a test or not. It's not any more cushy than nursing other than they get most a holidays and weekends off.

thesmurfette · May 24, 2009

She will also qualify for Social Security when she reaches 62 so she won't have to substitute teach any more -- and will still make almost her full salary without working at all.

Unfortunately, the SS loophole no longer exists. Many teachers used to only work 1 day in a position that paid SS and would be able to receive SS benefits upon retirement. That loophole no longer exists. Were I to remain a teacher, I would not be able to receive the full SS survivor benefit my husband will have earned upon retirement. It would dollar for dollar be reduced by my teacher retirement. I alone would not qualify for SS because I wouldn't have enough work credits.

lindarn · May 24, 2009

i taught high school for several years, now i'm changing careers to nursing. wanted to dispel the misconceptions of you post.
"that may be true, but teachers have far better benefits than nurses do, have pensions that they can actually live/retire, on"
depends on the local school district. some offer good retirement plan, some don't.
"control over their class sizes"
class sizes are mandated based on state and local laws. teacher have absolutely no control over this. unfortunately similar to nursing, the pressure is to increase not decrease sizes.
"a union that actually sticks up for them with adminstration."
again depends on the state, and local chapters. i've been told unions have little to no power in the south.
"you don't see teachers having to deal with parents insisting on staying in their child's classroom for the entire school day, and trying to control/interfere in the classroom dynamics on a daily basis. i am not saying that parents cannot be pia's it is just that teachers have the conrol to prevent this from becoming out of control the way it has in hospitals."
the school board and parents have much influence, especially in small school districts.
"nurses wish we had what teachers have."
you can get certification to teach high school nursing. but be careful what you wish for!

in washington state, class sizes are 26 children to class. if the child has a disability, such as adhd, the child is counted twice, leaving the teacher with a class count of 25 children. and teachers do uphold the class size and have the right to refuse additional children in their classes.

in this environment, even in the best of locales, such as california, try upholdng staffing ratios, with a resistant management and/or administration.

and like other areas, up front, it may seem that teachers are paid less than nurses, but at the end of the day, who really has the better compensation? and lets not talk about union resprestation. it is rare for nurse to have a union who has done anything, to improve working conditions, pay, benefits, etc, except the california nurses association and the nnoc.

it boggles the mind that nurse still have the mindset that "unions are bad" , and "i wouldn't work for a union hospital for all the tea in china", all the while almost falling down from overwork, low pay, no respect, or control over the work place. teachers unionized years ago, to allow them the academic freedom to teach, without interferance from the administration, or school boards.

nurses have yet to figure out the obvious- refusing to unionize has led nursing to where we are now. and teacher have the better pension, benefits, working conditions because they were able to figure out that they would be up you know where without a paddle, it they did not unionize and left their career up to greedy school boards. and parents cannot stay in a classroom all day and pester the teacher or interfere with the class, like they do to nurses in a hospital.

i cannot imagine why nursing has not been smart enough to figure out that yet. jmho and my ny $ 0.02.

lindarn, rn, bsn, ccrn

spokane, washington

flbeau · May 24, 2009

That may be true, but teachers have far better benefits than nurses do, have pensions that they can actually live/retire, on, have control over their class sizes, and have a union that actually sticks up for them with adminstration. You don't see teachers having to deal with parents insisting on staying in their child's classroom for the entire school day, and trying to control/interfere in the classroom dynamics on a daily basis. I am not saying that parents cannot be PIA's it is just that teachers have the conrol to prevent this from becoming out of control the way it has in hospitals. Nurses wish we had what teachers have. JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

Not in Texas, we pay 1/3 of my husbands salary for benefits that are abyssmal. There is no control over class sizes besides what the state mandate. Parents remain a major issue in teaching and often do try and control classroom dynamics as they can't believe their little "Johnny" could ever be an issue (as they complain they don't know what they are going to be doing with little JOhnny as he is so annoying in the summer). Teachers have no control over parents being PIAs. My husband has a year of the same demanding parents, how long is the sverage hospital stay? My husband will not have social security when he retires (but then considering neither will I ) his pension is underfunded. No child left behind is also killing teachers. They know teach test taking strategies and pretty much focus only on the test. As well there is the mountain of papers he brings home so the short days of teaching wind up being ten hours.

jpRN84, BSN, RN · May 24, 2009

Here we go again with the nurses education debate, lol...If we took away the diploma programs and associate degree programs, the nursing shortage would be absolutely INSANE, I have an ASN and my sister has a BSN, I passed my boards on the first time, it took her 4 times to pass her boards, my program drilled NCLEX questions into us like wildfire, and hers didn't for them. We had more clinical time than her BSN program. It all depends on the program. The same nursing content is taught in all programs, the BSNs just have more non-nursing classes to take. Some places give extra money for BSNs some don't. It's just how it is. I plan on going back for my masters in nursing, but if I didn't want that, I would definitely not be going back for my bachelor's in nursing as the same nursing content is taught in diploma, associate or bachelor's program. If it were different we wouldn't all take the same NCLEX. Also, on the critical thinking debate that BSNs get more critical thinking skills, I beg to differ...in my associates degree program a HUGE emphasis was put on critical thinking skills. I'm not trying to convince anyone or offend anyone with this, just sharing my personal experience.

oramar · May 24, 2009

It is soooo variable right here in just Western Pa. There are teaches that work in unionized school districts that make very good money indeed. They also have way better pension and benefits than any nurse I know. However, we have these little school districts and private school where the money is BAD and benefits are poor when there are any that is, and of course they are not unionized. I don't know what is like in rest of the country.

flbeau · May 24, 2009

I think it all truly depends on where you live. In my district, teachers are paid VERY well and have great benefits; plus, their incomes increase at least 5-7% per year no matter what - sometimes even more. As far as their daily schedules, in my district they typically get 2 free periods/day plus their lunch break - not a bad deal. I can't recall the last time I got more than a cost of living raise or had a lunch break while working 12 straight hours. I guess unions really can help make a difference.
Then again, there is another district about 10 miles from here that doesn't even come close to paying its teachers what ours does - it's ridiculous.

Two free periods are often take up with meetings, lesson plans, grading and trainings. Lunch is thirty minutes and that is from when you start walking your kids to the cafeteria until you pick them up approx 24 minutes later.

SoCaliGirl · May 24, 2009

Here we go again with the nurses education debate, lol...If we took away the diploma programs and associate degree programs, the nursing shortage would be absolutely INSANE, I have an ASN and my sister has a BSN, I passed my boards on the first time, it took her 4 times to pass her boards, my program drilled NCLEX questions into us like wildfire, and hers didn't for them. We had more clinical time than her BSN program. It all depends on the program. The same nursing content is taught in all programs, the BSNs just have more non-nursing classes to take. Some places give extra money for BSNs some don't. It's just how it is. I plan on going back for my masters in nursing, but if I didn't want that, I would definitely not be going back for my bachelor's in nursing as the same nursing content is taught in diploma, associate or bachelor's program. If it were different we wouldn't all take the same NCLEX. Also, on the critical thinking debate that BSNs get more critical thinking skills, I beg to differ...in my associates degree program a HUGE emphasis was put on critical thinking skills. I'm not trying to convince anyone or offend anyone with this, just sharing my personal experience.

I think you posted in the wrong thread?

Music in My Heart · May 24, 2009

She will also qualify for Social Security when she reaches 62 so she won't have to substitute teach any more -- and will still make almost her full salary without working at all.

Here in California, teachers neither pay into SS nor may draw from SS. Some people consider that a penalty, others a benefit, depending on their political bents.

I have intimate knowledge of 8 school districts in Northern California and not a single one of them has ever paid a dime toward continuing education. Presumably that's why additional units move one along the salary schedule (q15 units = 1 column).

It is far from universal that either occupation earns more or has better benefits than the other.