Nurse fired for refusing flu shot

Nurses COVID

Published

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/29/pregnant-nurse-fired-after-refusing-flu-shot-due-to-miscarriage-fears/Just Just curious. What are your thoughts on this? Should an employer be able to force an employee to accept a medical intervention?
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
Both…I wouldn't believe the issue about ongoing problems from the flu shot without a lot of medical records and proof.

Well I believe her and I worked with her for years...I don't need to see her medical cords to believe her. Her issues are better than they were but she suffered for years. I myself had a reaction and cannot receive the vaccine anymore. Thankfully my reaction was temporary.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
Because we are being threatened with our jobs. Flu shot and career or unemployed.

This isn't being forced. This is making a choice.

Jenny McCarthy swore her son got autism from his vaccinations but look what did happen.....

If your coworker had an anaphylactic reaction to a component of the vaccine and ended up suffering some long term complication then it is very rare. Likely ah is blaming something on the vaccine.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
This isn't being forced. This is making a choice.

Jenny McCarthy swore her son got autism from his vaccinations but look what did happen.....

If your coworker had an anaphylactic reaction to a component of the vaccine and ended up suffering some long term complication then it is very rare. Likely ah is blaming something on the vaccine.

I'm not sure what you mean by "but look what did happen...". I can't stand Jenny McCarthy anyway and not sure what she has to do with this.

I don't believe that healthcare workers should be told flu shot or job. I don't think it is right. The unit I worked on actually had a large number of nurses who refused the shot. We were lucky that we could decline but sadly it might not be an option down the road. I don't think it is right. I find it very weird that as a society we are all worked up about our rights...but when it comes to flu shot so many are okay with mandated vaccinations.

It is what it is....I just don't think it is right.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Anesthesia.
Well I believe her and I worked with her for years...I don't need to see her medical cords to believe her. Her issues are better than they were but she suffered for years. I myself had a reaction and cannot receive the vaccine anymore. Thankfully my reaction was temporary.

Yep, I hear the same things about labor epidurals and back pain all the time, but the research shows that natural delivery and delivery with an epidural have the same rates long term back pain. In other words the statistics and research don't match for all the people that state they have had these long term reactions.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.

Influenza vaccination for healthc... [Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

Eminence vs. evidence | The Cochrane Collaboration

Exhibit B: ‘flu drugs

British Columbia (BC) launched a very aggressive anti-‘flu policy this fall, with healthcare workers being forced to get the ‘flu shot or wear a mask. The rationale is that anyone caring for patients shouldn’t also be passing on viruses to them and making them sick. Fair enough. But does the evidence support mandatory ‘flu shots for healthcare workers? Does the vaccine even work to prevent the spread of the virus?

BC Provincial Health Officer Dr. Perry Kendall thinks so and so do some of his colleagues, including Dr. Paul Van Buynder, Chief Medical Office of Fraser Health. A researcher friend of mine asked Dr. Van Buynder for the evidence used to support this new policy. He received a reference list that fits into the ‘shotgun’ category of literature reviews, containing dozens and dozens of references, some relevant studies as well as editorials, commentaries, eminent opinions, and other detritus. Hmmm. And this is somehow supposed to placate us as a reasonable ‘evidence base’?

When you use a shotgun, you’re likely to hit something – maybe. Included in the province’s ‘evidence’ to support the new policy was a whole range of studies and outcomes, including some deemed ‘biologically implausible’ - such as that vaccinating health workers reduces death by all causes, which is to say the ‘flu shot also prevents death by strangulation, gun shots, and zombies.

To counter this, I looked for the sniper rifle and spoke to Dr. Tom Jefferson, a Rome-based researcher who produces ‘flu vaccine reviews for The Cochrane Collaboration. He’s been doing systematic reviews of ‘flu vaccines and ‘flu drugs for over a decade, so he has more than a passing interest in the subject. Jefferson’s team examined four large cluster randomised trials and one cohort trial of nearly 20,000 healthcare workers. According to their findings, the ‘flu vaccine showed “no effect on specific outcomes: laboratory-proven influenza, pneumonia, or deaths from pneumonia”.

In other words, the ‘flu policy, while eminently agreeable, is unsupported by evidence that has been systematically collected, critically evaluated, and properly synthesised. BC is not the only jurisdiction to adopt a ‘trust us, we’re experts’ pose, but in my opinion, that response is only fit for underlings, not intelligent, responsible healthcare workers facing the pointy end of a syringe this season.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Anesthesia.
I'm not sure what you mean by "but look what did happen...". I can't stand Jenny McCarthy anyway and not sure what she has to do with this.

I don't believe that healthcare workers should be told flu shot or job. I don't think it is right. The unit I worked on actually had a large number of nurses who refused the shot. We were lucky that we could decline but sadly it might not be an option down the road. I don't think it is right. I find it very weird that as a society we are all worked up about our rights...but when it comes to flu shot so many are okay with mandated vaccinations.

It is what it is....I just don't think it is right.

This is about public safety not individual rights. When someone invents vaccines that are 100% effective for life then we can let the "personal rights" and anti-vaccine nuts go back to the good old days without vaccines and the rest of us can lead long healthy lives free of vaccine preventable diseases. At least as long as I don't have to pay for these anti-vaccine nuts hospital bills as a tax payer that is.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Anesthesia.
Influenza vaccination for healthc... [Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

Eminence vs. evidence | The Cochrane Collaboration

Exhibit B: ‘flu drugs

British Columbia (BC) launched a very aggressive anti-‘flu policy this fall, with healthcare workers being forced to get the ‘flu shot or wear a mask. The rationale is that anyone caring for patients shouldn’t also be passing on viruses to them and making them sick. Fair enough. But does the evidence support mandatory ‘flu shots for healthcare workers? Does the vaccine even work to prevent the spread of the virus?

BC Provincial Health Officer Dr. Perry Kendall thinks so and so do some of his colleagues, including Dr. Paul Van Buynder, Chief Medical Office of Fraser Health. A researcher friend of mine asked Dr. Van Buynder for the evidence used to support this new policy. He received a reference list that fits into the ‘shotgun’ category of literature reviews, containing dozens and dozens of references, some relevant studies as well as editorials, commentaries, eminent opinions, and other detritus. Hmmm. And this is somehow supposed to placate us as a reasonable ‘evidence base’?

When you use a shotgun, you’re likely to hit something – maybe. Included in the province’s ‘evidence’ to support the new policy was a whole range of studies and outcomes, including some deemed ‘biologically implausible’ - such as that vaccinating health workers reduces death by all causes, which is to say the ‘flu shot also prevents death by strangulation, gun shots, and zombies.

To counter this, I looked for the sniper rifle and spoke to Dr. Tom Jefferson, a Rome-based researcher who produces ‘flu vaccine reviews for The Cochrane Collaboration. He’s been doing systematic reviews of ‘flu vaccines and ‘flu drugs for over a decade, so he has more than a passing interest in the subject. Jefferson’s team examined four large cluster randomised trials and one cohort trial of nearly 20,000 healthcare workers. According to their findings, the ‘flu vaccine showed “no effect on specific outcomes: laboratory-proven influenza, pneumonia, or deaths from pneumonia”.

In other words, the ‘flu policy, while eminently agreeable, is unsupported by evidence that has been systematically collected, critically evaluated, and properly synthesised. BC is not the only jurisdiction to adopt a ‘trust us, we’re experts’ pose, but in my opinion, that response is only fit for underlings, not intelligent, responsible healthcare workers facing the pointy end of a syringe this season.

My article response to your last article already countered the Cochrane review, but I guess you missed that.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
I'm not sure what you mean by "but look what did happen...". I can't stand Jenny McCarthy anyway and not sure what she has to do with this.

I don't believe that healthcare workers should be told flu shot or job. I don't think it is right.

Google it ;)

Basically what you are saying is that you don't think the choice should have any consequences, not that it is forced.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
Google it ;)

Basically what you are saying is that you don't think the choice should have any consequences, not that it is forced.

I think life comes with consequences. I never said all consequences were fair. I don't believe this is a fair consequence.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
My article response to your last article already countered the Cochrane review, but I guess you missed that.

So your article is better than the chochrane review because why? The truth is there is doubt out there and that alone should be enough to stop the mandated vaccines.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Anesthesia.
So your article is better than the chochrane review because why? The truth is there is doubt out there and that alone should be enough to stop the mandated vaccines.

Every article has flaws, but what these reviews from Cochrane etc are wanting/suggesting is to let thousands of people of die so large randomized control trials can be done. That makes perfect sense, right. Hey, it would give us our statistics that we need so it is perfectly plausible.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
So your article is better than the chochrane review because why? The truth is there is doubt out there and that alone should be enough to stop the mandated vaccines.

Doubt doesn't erase EBM...there will always be outliers; however, there is too much rebuttals to such doubts, hence unless their is a scientific study to refute, it remain the same-FACTS.

Also, there is no "mandate"; only requirements; one doesn't have to agree with the requirement, one goes on with their career somewhere else; no one's career is over unless they choose it to be.

Sounds like the "forcing" is on the other side, the individualistic vs the common good.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment