MD screaming at RN's in front of patients regularly - page 3

I currently work with an Psych MD that is also the Medical Director of a psych unit. I've never met such a rude doctor in my life! I'm a pretty new nurse and have only been working at the hospital... Read More

  1. by   Paul'in'FL
    Quote from Guttercat
    I'm painting with a broad, anecdotal paintbrush here-- but in my experience many MD's/psychologists drawn to the psychiatric medical profession to begin with, are nutcases themselves.
    Also my experience with those in this field....not wrapped too tightly, and quite prone to "self-medicate" with RX's and booze. This is ASSAULT, at least where I live.
  2. by   Paul'in'FL
    Quote from AtivanIM
    you think that my incident reports will go through the proper channels?
    I believe that it says on the IR, or at the very least I was told that an IR cannot be copied. Is this true? I do not want to violate any laws but I need a paper trail as was posted earlier.
    Incident report formats vary by location, but most I have seen have a log number preprinted on them. I would NOT risk your license by photocopying, but have notes AT HOME that have the log # if there is one, date, time, and a synopsis of what you wrote, where and when you turned it in, etc.

    I had a new unit manager like this....she later lost her license~she was using and selling drugs, even running them from FL to NY. Within 90 days of her taking over the unit, 60% of the RN's resigned, including all of the BSN's. Still, admin left her alone until they had the paper trail they needed for the BON and police. You can NOT be the first person to comment on this doc's behavior...
  3. by   KelRN215
    This is a reportable offense. JCAHO has a zero tolerance policy for distruptive behavior from physicians/management:

    JCAHO requires ' Zero Tolerance' for Disruptive Doctors and Administrators | Fox Rothschild LLP
  4. by   lindarn
    I suggest making copies of Incident Reports, because they can and do dissappear if the you know what hits the fan. I did not say to advertise that you are making copies of Incident Reports, just to have them handy if something comes up and the facility is ready to throw you under the bus.

    No one has to know that your are making copies of the reports. Just keep it to yourself if and when the need arises.

    Keeping your own notes is also a good idea.

    JMHO and my NY $0.02.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
  5. by   ProgressiveActivist
    When family experience this, close the door, look them in they eye, and say: You need to report this. Hand them a scrap of paper with a phone number.

    Let the family know that this is not who we are.

    I have done this and in retrospect I only wish I had done it sooner.
  6. by   samadams8
    Quote from libbyliberal
    When family experience this, close the door, look them in they eye, and say: You need to report this. Hand them a scrap of paper with a phone number.

    Let the family know that this is not who we are.

    I have done this and in retrospect I only wish I had done it sooner.
    Good idea. It's just that the families are in a vulnerable state and often don't know what to do.
  7. by   joanna73
    Our Doctors regularly yell at staff and neglect patient care. This is an ongoing major issue, which we all document. Presently, our concerns will be addressed with their supervisors (everyone answers to someone). In addition, they lose staff because of this. A few nurses are quitting within the next six months, myself included. I can't tolerate it anymore, and I don't have to. I am fortunate to have enough experience to move on, but I have tolerated the abuse for 2 years. Not an easy situation to be in, and very unfair to their patients. Document everything!
  8. by   samadams8
    Quote from AtivanIM
    I hope this post does not make you take a break from allnurses or keep depressing you. Thank you for your reply, although my post was not uplifting, it was out of desperation to be validated in my feelings by other nurses. If it makes a difference, your reply was greatly appreciated, and I thank you for it!

    Hey thanks. It feels like there is general sense of oppression in nursing. To me this speaks of a hostile work environment.
  9. by   imintrouble
    I've not experienced what you describe personally, but I've witnessed it and remained silent. I regret that daily. I always wonder what would have happened if I'd simply offered support for the nurse being yelled at instead of walking away.
    It almost never happens anymore, at least where I work.
  10. by   malamud69
    Have her committed...
  11. by   FurBabyMom
    Quote from AtivanIM
    Thank you all for your replies! I feel more motivated to look for new employment, regardless of my current work schedule of 50+ hours weekly that leave me physically and mentally drained. I finally feel like my concerns are validated and this Dr. should be reprimanded for their obscene behavior!!!
    Since you all have been so receptive, I would like to ask a few more questions so I can truly be "smart" about this...
    I had been told, when I asked a manager on what incidents were reportable, that to write them if in doubt and if the management feels that it is unimportant that it can "just be ripped up." With the management wanting to push this under the rug, do you think that my incident reports will go through the proper channels?
    I believe that it says on the IR, or at the very least I was told that an IR cannot be copied. Is this true? I do not want to violate any laws but I need a paper trail as was posted earlier.
    Would a time stamped word document to each incident be used as evidence to the Medical Board I plan on reporting her to? I am still very concerned with backlash, as I have seen it myself happen to competent nurses in the facility and was told by senior members of the facility that "it's best to stay under the radar around here."
    About the incident reports - check your facility's policies and procedures. It may list specifics there. If it does say something like that, it might work to go to quality/internal investigation and work with them to document the instances. At both my current facility and my last job (2nd nursing job), incident reports went to risk management/internal affairs and were handled that way. We could also call the office and give a nugget of information without the report process. My second job - incident reports were done electronically and given a "tracking" number much like a package would be during shipping.

    I don't know about copying. I've only had to do a few. The first two were at my first job (the one I was at for 13 weeks) - one was related to a visitor arresting on our unit (all codes were incident reports and this visitor was the husband of one of my patients...), the other to a family member interfering with a patient's care. My second job, I only filled out one incident report. That'd be because I called the rapid response team (per policy) for a patient's behavior (in this facility, floor RNs were not allowed to initiate restraints without rapid responsing a patient). Anyhow - the RRT didn't bother to call our unit or come to our unit to see what we were paging over (yay numeric paging only). So I called the on call for the patient's admitting/attending service and they handled it. But I had to write it up. Cause it could have very easily NOT been over behavior but over something much more serious.
  12. by   FurBabyMom
    Quote from AtivanIM
    In addition, I would like to add a conversation I had with another RN yesterday to add to this MD's ridulousness...
    I was told to NEVER give a child an anti-anxiety medication or sleep aids that were prescribed by the on-call doctor, regardless of the child's mental state. That this MD does not believe in these types of medications and that I will "get my ass chewed." I actually truly appreciate any heads-up that anyone gives to avoid "getting my ass chewed."
    It really should not be reprimanded if the on-call MD, that are also usually child psychiatrists themselves, write an order and not give it. Isn't it a fundamental rule that you follow Dr.'s orders unless they are detrimental to the patient? That if you call them about a heart rate in the 140's immediately after admission because they have been through something so traumatic that they just shake in terror and an order of Vistaril 25mg PO Q6 should not be denied because of the tirade you will recieve when she comes to the unit the next day. BTW, the anti-anxiety medications are almost always, with only very few exceptions, uncontrolled substances and the most liberal the MD's on call will be for insomnia is Benadryl.
    Now that I think about it, shouldn't she be on-call 24-7 if we are expected to NOT follow a Dr.'s orders?
    Well, consider the scope of your license. You assess, document and discuss with MDs, DOs, NPs and/or PAs about your patients. Seems like you are working within your license and that the on calls are working within theirs. Unless you have a "good" reason not to follow an order, and yes, usually it is like following the order could cause harm to your patient, then you should give it. Your responsibility all boils down to patient safety - noting and documenting assessment changes, vitals, medications and effects - if you are receiving orders for a medication there is a reason. Unless it a policy that on call coverage cannot write for XYZ on a patient then you have done nothing wrong. I would suggest the doc take it up with their coworker who wrote/gave the order, and/or suggest they be the only on call doc if they want it their way.
  13. by   PMFB-RN
    There is only one REAL reason she behaves that way, it is tolerated. I would not and have never tolerated such behavior. The time to nip it in the but is immediatly when it occures. When she yells or does something else inappropiate you must IMMEDIATLY tell her that is unacceptable behavior and that you simply will not tolerate it. Once you have made that perfectly clear if she continues then it's time to bring it to managment (in writing, use buzz words like "hostile work enviroment". "assault", "threatening", "emotional abuse" etc.). Give them an appropiate time frame to deal with the situation, usually 30 days, and if they elect to not deal with it it's time to speak with a lawyer about filiing a suit. Usually actually filing a suit is not needed. Just let them know you are serious.
    Personaly I would let her know (without actually saying the words) that if she continues to abuse the nurses I would be happy to catch her alone in the parking lot and teach her a lesson in civil behavior. That tactic has worked wonders for me many times, but I can't recomend it to anyone else.
    Obviously you need to be looking for another job. Your managment's tolerating of it's nurses being abused speaks VOLUMES about how little they care about you.