NPs practicing as DRs

[SkiBumNP]

This has been a heated discussion between some of my friends and I, so I thought I would bring it to the forum.

Should people who are going through a DNP programs and taking the SAME test we all took for our MSN - NP for national certification think their education 'doctorate" is a clinical doctorate?

Until there is a national standard and an elevation of the test (think along the USMLE) then I think anyone who thinks their DNP is a clinical doctorate is a joke.

your thoughts. . . . .?

[BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN]

I don't unequivocally support the DNP as entry degree, but I do think that all NPs should support the DNP as the terminal degree. We are the leaders and innovators of our profession. We have worked hard to demonstrate our commitment, acumen and excellence. I think that we have earned your respect and support, even if you don't aspire to attain the DNP for yourself.

Rising tides raise all boats.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Maybe you haven't worked around many psychologists? In my neck of the woods, they all refer to themselves as doctor in a clinical setting, including hospitals.

*** Naturaly, of course they do. Everybody knows that. I never said they didn't. I would fully expect they would. No I haven't worked around many psychologists. Only a few.

And why shouldn't they? They have the terminal doctoral degree in their field (and believe me, getting a PhD in clinical psychology is no walk in the park).

*** I have no idea why they shouldn't. I actually never occured to me that they would not call themselves doctor. I don't have the slightest dout that earning a doctoral degree in psychology, or any other field, is at all easy.

I have worked in a number of large hospitals in 4 states and can not remember a single time when one of my patients was visited by a psychologist, except when it was their personal psychologist with whom they already had a relationship with prior to their hospitalization. Based on my experience as an ER, ICU, rapid resonse, and critical care transport nurse I think it would unusual for a hospital patient to have a psychologist walk into their room. Of course I have never worked psych.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

I don't unequivocally support the DNP as entry degree, but I do think that all NPs should support the DNP as the terminal degree. We are the leaders and innovators of our profession. We have worked hard to demonstrate our commitment, acumen and excellence. I think they we have earned your respect and support, even if you don't aspire to attain the DNP for yourself.

Rising tides raise all boats.

*** I very much support a DNP for terminal degree for NPs. However that is a very, very different thing than requiring a DNP for entry to practice as some would like to see.

[BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN]

Agreed. Even if people cannot find common ground on the entry to practice issue (and I suspect it will be a moot point in the long run) I think threads such as this one, that demonstrate enmity for one's colleagues rather than obeisance and support, are infelicitous for the individuals involved as well as our shared profession. Would that people considered such before making derisive comments.

[psychonaut]

Agreed. Even if people cannot find common ground on the entry to practice issue (and I suspect it will be a moot point in the long run) I think threads such as this one, that demonstrate enmity for one's colleagues rather than obeisance and support, are infelicitous for the individuals involved as well as our shared profession. Would that people considered such before making derisive comments.

1. Deferential respect: "they paid obeisance to the prince".
   
2. A gesture expressing deferential respect, such as a bow or curtsy.
   

"Bow to your Sensei!"

=]

[psychonaut]

I don't unequivocally support the DNP as entry degree, but I do think that all NPs should support the DNP as the terminal degree. We are the leaders and innovators of our profession.

No, you are not. You are NPs with additional coursework in systems leadership, research utilization, health policy, etc.

I support your right to exist. Your extra coursework no more makes you my leader than my extra coursework as a BSN makes me the leader of the RN profession.

I know NPs with PhDs. They are NPs with additional mastery of theory, research design, and generation of new knowledge. They are not my leaders either.

Whatever the focus of your final project, I would be happy to consult you (as an expert) in that area. My willingness to consult you on general patient management issues would be based solely on your acumen as a Nurse Practitioner, NOT your DNP.

We have worked hard to demonstrate our commitment, acumen and excellence. I think that we have earned your respect and support, even if you don't aspire to attain the DNP for yourself.

You have the same respect I offer automatically for all my fellow nursing professionals. Beyond that, my respect is afforded on many things, but none of them is the letters after your name (beyond "RN").

Rising tides raise all boats.

...and drown those of us not in your boat, right?

[BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN]

A most unfortunate antiphon. Underestimation of the impact of DNP colleagues to one's own detriment, and fractious emotionalism does far more damage than edicts from the AANP ever could. And there lies the threat; not from the organizations supporting the DNP, and certainly not from the existence of the DNP itself or individuals holding/seeking one.

[psychonaut]

A most unfortunate antiphon. Underestimation of the impact of DNP colleagues to one's own detriment, and fractious emotionalism does far more damage than edicts from the AANP ever could. And there lies the threat; not from the organizations supporting the DNP, and certainly not from the existence of the DNP itself or individuals holding/seeking one.

Trolling in its finest sense. Short, nonsensical posts, with subtle "bait" to incite the desired response. Make no mistake, I appreciate good trolling, even when I am the target.

How can I best react to the hook in my mouth? Froth with fury at your mis-characterizations, or mock your (clearly tongue-in-cheek) pseudo-intellectual vocabulary?

So, in plain language, devoid of any emotionalism: my intent is to oppose any requirement for the DNP as entry level to the Nurse Practitioner profession. My focus will be at the state level, with my state's board of nursing, but will extend to the national level as needed. I will make my state legislators aware of my opinions and rationale on this subject.

I will never oppose your right to practice, nor oppose you setting yourself up as an expert in your area of interest. I'm also well over the whole "calling yourself Doctor" (non) issue, you can call yourself whatever you want.

Being a nurse makes you my peer. Being a NP makes you my colleague. Having a DNP makes you, at very best, an NP with additional experience in some specific content area.

[BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN]

I have phrased my comments with great prepense so as to avoid giving inference I do not intend, and being exceptionally respectful of individuals. That this would be considered "trolling" is patently absurd (as are jejune comments about my vocabulary). I have been very deliberate not to give insult to anyone. That the same complaisance is not afforded to me is indeed a great pitty.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

Kenneth Walsh, Ph.D. » Medicine » Boston University there is indeed a PhD in Medicine..

First, wow, that was a very long post. Thank you for taking so much time to post your views. The difference here is that osteopathic education changed so that it now is IDENTICAL to allopathic education. They both have 2 years of basic science education, 2 years of clinical education and the exact same residencies. The improvement in education is why they are considered identical. It is not that MDs relaxed what they expected. It is that DO's stepped up their education. PhD's do not have a doctorate of medicine. They have doctorates in biology, biochemistry, or genetics or molecular engineering... well you get the idea. It is not a doctorate of medicine. There is no overlap there between MD and PhD. One is clinical, one is research based. Not to be snide but the dentist is the most knowledgable about the pathology of the mouth. MDs know much less about the mouth. What is the DNP the most knowlegable about? This is a serious question.

[core0]

Kenneth Walsh, Ph.D. » Medicine » Boston University there is indeed a PhD in Medicine..

You do understand the difference between professor of medicine and PhD in medicine?

The PhD is in biology. He is the medical school as a professor of medicine (ie that is his academic rank).

[wowza]

Kenneth Walsh, Ph.D. » Medicine » Boston University there is indeed a PhD in Medicine..

Yeah, no there't not. This guy you posted is a chemist who has an appointment doing research for the medicine dept. Specifically he has a PhD in biochemistry (ie not in medicine).