NP w/no desire for RN?

Well, not so much NO desire...but are there any NP's out there that wanted to become (and had their sights set on being an NP from day 1) an NP with no real 'drive' to be an RN first? My cousin is finishing up her RN-MSN program and never really wanted to become an RN, but she really wanted to become an NP, so she went the RN route to become an NP (which I know you have to do).

I know this is somewhat rare, but wondering are there any other NP's out there that looked at RN as kinda pre-NP school/clinical stuff in order to become an NP? Like, they may not be real thrilled with what they are doing (RN) but they know they have to do it in order to become an NP. Keep in mind I'm not saying you would hate being an RN or hate RN's or anything to that affect, but you dream has been to become an NP and RN school/work is a sort of necessary 'not the most enthusiastic' hurdle?

Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.
You know as I am sitting here studying for my first graduate course in a MHPNP Program, I have been thinking of your question. I am a former teacher. Teachers get a job in their specialty upon graduation from undergraduate school. They have five years to get their master's degree. They cannot get certified without a master's degree and three years of teaching experience. I really don't want to be a nurse practitioner. I just want to be a psychiatric nurse. But I cannot get a job as a psychiatric nurse without med surg experience. I don't want to be a med surg nurse. So I am getting an, MS degree to be a psychiatric nurse practitioner, and meanwhile I am looking for a job as a nurse extender which is a job for student nurses, just so I can get experience. I received my RN a long time ago. I believe that new RNs from BS programs should be able to get a job in their specialty field whatever that may be and be expected to get a masters in that specialty in a required number of years. Then if that nurse wants to become a nurse practitioner in that specialty, she can get it while she works or she can take a leave of absence. I think going from school to be a nurse practitioner, with no experience, is what you are being forced to do, because there are no master's programs in specialties without being a nurse practitioner. I think the whole thing needs to be changed. But that is just my opinion. I realize that my situation is kind of unique, because i graduated such a long time ago. I have been noticing that more hospitals are hiring new grads straight into specialties and giving residencies. If i could find one in psych, I would take it. I have noticed these positions in cardiology, oncology, newborn, and labor and delivery. If you have a speicialty in mind, you may want to try a nurse residency program to get some experience before you become a nurase practitioner. That will certainly make it easier for you to get a job.

But, let's say a teacher doesn't want to teach? Just be a principal or superintendent? They would never be able to without teaching experience first. So, there has to be a logical step-by-step progresson in order to get to your ultimate goal.

And, I had no idea you really didn't want to be an NP.

I think you might be more content if you just go to a refresher course, relearn the basics and try for a psych position. Why be an NP if you have no desire?

But, let's say a teacher doesn't want to teach? Just be a principal or superintendent? They would never be able to without teaching experience first. So, there has to be a logical step-by-step progresson in order to get to your ultimate goal.

And, I had no idea you really didn't want to be an NP.

I think you might be more content if you just go to a refresher course, relearn the basics and try for a psych position. Why be an NP if you have no desire?

Well usually a principal is a teacher first, but there are always exceptions. A friend of mine was a psychologist, became head of pupil personnel and then became a principal. He thought that would lead him to a superintendant job, but he changed his mind along the way. He loves being a principal. My principal was a high school science teacher, then a HS asst. principal and then an elementary school principal. So everyone is different as you said.

I do agree with you about there being a progression. I did take a refresher course, and I couldn't get a psych job without med surg , and at this time in my life, med surg is not for me. So I decided that if I am in this program, I may get a part time psych job. I really don't mind getting my MS in psychiatric nursing and working as a staff psych nurse. I would never feel comfortable being a PNP without any psych nursing experience. I know it is a round about way, but right now I have a round about life.lol It is a good thing to be laughing at it and not crying-believe me. Krisssy

I told several doctors about the Nursing Doctorate (ND) and they were NOT happy! When the NP has "ND" after their name and they're called "Doctor," then a patient won't be able to tell the difference between the NP and the physician! I'm 100% for the doctorate degree...I just hope I'm grandfathered in when that occurs!

Also, I couldn't agree more about the educational requirements for RN's. It just blows my mind it's the only profession that doesn't require a Bachelor's degree. The ADN's I know talk about all the "worthless" classes that we had to take...well guess what, EVERYONE with a college degree has to take those classes. How many school teachers do you know who have an Associates degree? NONE! Yeah...engineers, teachers, accountants, etc., they all had to take those "worthless" classes to get their degree. That's a big reason I went back to school and became a nurse practitioner. Now I'm not longer frustrated that I'm getting the same pay as someone who went to the local Ju-Co.

Pitty, Nurses putting other nurses down. I see why the nursing profession is not taking serious by some other professions, Just listen to your comments about

Associate degree nurses. Associate degree nurses get much more hands on clinical than most Bachelor degree nurses and coming out of school are much better nurses on the floor. This group of NP OR want to NP or laugh out loud unbelievable :rotfl:

This group of NP OR want to NP or laugh out loud unbelievable :rotfl:

Can you explain this in English?

I believe that nurses should be able to start with an AD or Diploma program. In my day the BS nurses did not get enough floor experience. BUT, like teachers, they should have to get their BS and then masters within a certain amt. of years. I also believe that nurse practitioners should be required to have doctorates. God, they are writing prescriptions. If teachers are required to have BS and master's degrees, then why aren't nurses? They are also professionals and are handling life and death situations. I believe that I am being FORCED to get my nurse practitioner's degree when all I want is a master's in psych nursing and a staff psych nurse job. AD and diploma nurses, I am NOT putting down your education. I think your floor experience is fabulous. I am sorry that I didn't go to a diploma school first like I had originally wanted to do. After my BS education, I never really felt qualified to work on a floor. They did not have nurse internships and externships in those days. Of course, I believe this should be grandfathered in with new graduates. I wouldn't expect a diploma nurse from 1969, with loads of fabulous experience, to be forced to go back to school now. Krisssy

Can you explain this in English?

Agreed! I don't understand what you are saying here? Krisssy

Yes we have the same question. I am currently in my junior year to recieve my BS degree. I have no desire to work as a staff nurse, but rather continue right on to get my masters degree. I really dont have much time to decide because my mind has to be made up by September (my senior year) to apply to master's level schools. My even bigger problem is that im only 20 and by the time i am done with my NP I will be only 23 and patients really wont respect my judgement at such a young age...

You can start your MSN program and take non clinical courses while you work as an RN; maybe take 3 or 4 years instead of 2 to finish your MSN. This way you'll get valuable experience.

Your dilemma isn't much different from the 23, 24 year old direct entry students I'm in class with. Even though the faculty downplay us MSN students who enter as RNs ("after a few months of school we can't tell the difference between you RNs and the GEPNs!", which I think is total BS and disrespectful to us), the direct entry students are all freaked out because they DON'T have clinical experience (they like to see us RNs fail and make nasty comments to us). (I suspect the faculty think they have to potentially "undo" and "retrain" a nurse from thinking and acting like a nurse -- like the nurse managers who like to get young, impressionable new grads rather than older, established, adult nurses.) A couple of the other incoming RNs with me are young, like you, with only a few months' real world experience, but even these few months working on a floor was a tremendous boost to their confidence and skills -- they feel like "real nurses" and identify as nurses, not "clincians," in opposition to the GEPNs, who I think have perceived social class issues with the type of person who becomes a nurse. Many of the GEPNs plan on working as an RN when they graduate to gain credible experience while studying for boards, &c. So much for not needing to "be a nurse" before doing advanced practice.

I think the RNs they will work with in the future may not respect them as much -- depends on how they treat nurses when they start practicing, and they realize they're writing orders for the nurses to follow. Power! I sure wouldn't, especially considering the arrogance I witness, some of which is rooted in social class prejudice and a certain type of elitism towards women who work as nurses, instead, of say MDs or APRNs.

That said, I'm sure the direct entry students do OK enough once they get their NPs, probably after 2 or 3 years of practice, although their initial anxiety might be greater. I wonder if anyone's done a study on this issue?

After observing and talking with GEPNs and others, what I would advise anyone now considering a direct entry type of career in advanced practice nursing, is to attend an Accelerated BSN program (I'm assuming this type of applicant already has a BA or more). Although one can endlessly argue the merits of accelerated programs, they still lead to a BSN and are ends in themselves, not slapdash one year nursing-as-necessary-evil-prereq to becoming a "clinician" as it seems to be in these 3 year direct entry MSN programs. I would advise starting work as an RN in a place with a great orientation program after graduation, while applying for MSN programs. You can take non clinical MSN classes while working. Your options for MSN programs are greater if you are not dependent on a direct entry program -- you aren't stuck with choosing between, say, Yale or Columbia or UCSF. There are many highly ranked MSN programs out there that require BSN or admission. And if you play your cards right, after graduating from your accelerated BSN program, get a job at the hospital affiliated with the MSN program you want to apply to. Many such hospitals will pay your tuition if you work a certain number of hours for them.

I am a student BSc nurse based in the u.k and I am planning to go on and do my Masters as soon as I am finished my course( but the long route in order to gain exp along the way). in the u.k my course would be paid for and there wouldn't be any waiting but I'm assuming this would work differently because I would be a foreign student.

Anybody got ideas of course prices? Waiting times? Course length (full and part-time)?:confused: Thanks

You can start your MSN program and take non clinical courses while you work as an RN; maybe take 3 or 4 years instead of 2 to finish your MSN. This way you'll get valuable experience.

Your dilemma isn't much different from the 23, 24 year old direct entry students I'm in class with. Even though the faculty downplay us MSN students who enter as RNs ("after a few months of school we can't tell the difference between you RNs and the GEPNs!", which I think is total BS and disrespectful to us), the direct entry students are all freaked out because they DON'T have clinical experience (they like to see us RNs fail and make nasty comments to us). (I suspect the faculty think they have to potentially "undo" and "retrain" a nurse from thinking and acting like a nurse -- like the nurse managers who like to get young, impressionable new grads rather than older, established, adult nurses.) A couple of the other incoming RNs with me are young, like you, with only a few months' real world experience, but even these few months working on a floor was a tremendous boost to their confidence and skills -- they feel like "real nurses" and identify as nurses, not "clincians," in opposition to the GEPNs, who I think have perceived social class issues with the type of person who becomes a nurse. Many of the GEPNs plan on working as an RN when they graduate to gain credible experience while studying for boards, &c. So much for not needing to "be a nurse" before doing advanced practice.

I think the RNs they will work with in the future may not respect them as much -- depends on how they treat nurses when they start practicing, and they realize they're writing orders for the nurses to follow. Power! I sure wouldn't, especially considering the arrogance I witness, some of which is rooted in social class prejudice and a certain type of elitism towards women who work as nurses, instead, of say MDs or APRNs.

That said, I'm sure the direct entry students do OK enough once they get their NPs, probably after 2 or 3 years of practice, although their initial anxiety might be greater. I wonder if anyone's done a study on this issue?

After observing and talking with GEPNs and others, what I would advise anyone now considering a direct entry type of career in advanced practice nursing, is to attend an accelerated BSN program (I'm assuming this type of applicant already has a BA or more). Although one can endlessly argue the merits of accelerated programs, they still lead to a BSN and are ends in themselves, not slapdash one year nursing-as-necessary-evil-prereq to becoming a "clinician" as it seems to be in these 3 year direct entry MSN programs. I would advise starting work as an RN in a place with a great orientation program after graduation, while applying for MSN programs. You can take non clinical MSN classes while working. Your options for MSN programs are greater if you are not dependent on a direct entry program -- you aren't stuck with choosing between, say, Yale or Columbia or UCSF. There are many highly ranked MSN programs out there that require BSN or admission. And if you play your cards right, after graduating from your accelerated BSN program, get a job at the hospital affiliated with the MSN program you want to apply to. Many such hospitals will pay your tuition if you work a certain number of hours for them.

First of all, what is a GEPN? Are you saying that direct entry programs are for RNs and for people with undergraduate degrees in other areas? Would I have been able to go into a direct entry graduate program with a BSN from 1969? Krisssy

Specializes in Freelance Writer, 'the nurse who knows content'.
I also believe that nurse practitioners should be required to have doctorates. God, they are writing prescriptions.

Um... MDs write prescriptions without having a doctoral degree. Ditto for PAs.

Um... MDs write prescriptions without having a doctoral degree. Ditto for PAs.

MD's do not need a doctorate after the education and the amt. of clinical hours they have. Of what I have read on this web site, PA's have a lot more clinical hours than NP's. Anyway, I was merely saying that I think the whole educational structure for nurses should be changed, so that we are respected as much as other professionals. And I happen to think that diploma nurses have a great beginning education as nurses. As a BS graduate, I wish I had had that kind of floor experience. I have often said that I wished I had started out in a diploma school as I had orifginally intended. I am just saying that after that, they should eventually have to get a BS degree like other professionals. Teachers do it while they are working -a little at a time.

Krisssy

Um... MDs write prescriptions without having a doctoral degree. Ditto for PAs.

Um ... All MDs do have doctorates (also DOs) -- An MD is a doctoral degree ... (Hint -- that's why they're callled "doctors" ...)

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