NP science preparation vs. MD science preparation

emtneel · Apr 19, 2008

Nursing is not really "science" oriented. Although some would argue it is "nursing science" and theory. I had one Patho course in my program.

Even for RN pre-req's you can take nursing courses for A and P and nursing Chem/bio..

I took all the regular courses which were much more advanced, and was thankful my undergrad school had a cadaver for A and P.

If you want Genetics, A& P, Chem, Gross Anatomy and all that jazz you gotta go to med school...

allnurses Guide · Apr 19, 2008

Does anyone know, or has anyone every compared the science part of advanced practice nursing curriculum versus med school curriculum? Not the clinical part. Both nurses and MDs learn life science to some extent. I know that NPs must know advanced assessment skills and more advanced science, that must be similar in some respects to what physicians learn. I'm curious as to how the information is possibly conveyed in a different way in both programs.

I currently go to graduate nursing school at a university with med students. I have taken NP courses and now I am in nurse anesthesia school. I can tell you for a fact that there is no comparison between the sciences that NP students normally take vs. med students. What you need to remember though is that medical schools are preparing medical students to enter any medical speciality and/or an MD/PhD program. With an NP program you are learning just what you need to know to specialize in one area of patient care. In the end it makes medical doctors better scientists, but not necessarily better care givers.

Just to clarify some NP schools/graduate school nursing (at least one) do make you take gross anatomy.

emtneel · Apr 19, 2008

With an NP program you are learning just what you need to know to specialize in one area of patient care.

i Don't necessarily agree with this statement. For anesthesia, ACNP, NNP, or OB/GYN maybe.. but ANP, PNP, and FNP are all broad spectrum educations.

VivaRN · Apr 19, 2008

For the record my graduate program had us take genetics and embryology (FNP).

With our science background we are prepared for practice but not for a career in, say, virology research. I would also like to emphasize that learning doesn't end with school and if you desire more you can always pick up a book or journal.

allnurses Guide · Apr 19, 2008

i Don't necessarily agree with this statement. For anesthesia, ACNP, NNP, or OB/GYN maybe.. but ANP, PNP, and FNP are all broad spectrum educations.

When compared to medical education NP education, not MSN core courses, is more focused at this level of nursing education. We were trained as a generalist in our undergraduate education just as med students are trained as generalists during their 1st 4yrs of med school. That is all I am saying.

A medical student's science classes are more comprehensive, if that is a more appropriate phrasing, than what I have seen in or did in NP school.

It just my opinion..it is not meant to belittle NPs at all.

emtneel · Apr 19, 2008

For the record my graduate program had us take genetics and embryology (FNP).
With our science background we are prepared for practice but not for a career in, say, virology research. I would also like to emphasize that learning doesn't end with school and if you desire more you can always pick up a book or journal.

That's great, I think that is more the exception that the norm.. I am glad for my science/undergraduate background with upper level virology, advanced genetics, micro, med-micro, OChem, animal patho, etc.. I feel like I have a good grasp of concepts.

I also agree with the life-long learning and one reason I decided not to go to medical school. You can teach yourself many of the things you would learn there if you are diciplined.

SteveNNP, MSN, NP · Apr 19, 2008

As part of my NNP program, we take general patho, maternal/fetal patho, and genetics.....

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Apr 20, 2008

Does anyone know, or has anyone every compared the science part of advanced practice nursing curriculum versus med school curriculum? Not the clinical part. Both nurses and MDs learn life science to some extent. I know that NPs must know advanced assessment skills and more advanced science, that must be similar in some respects to what physicians learn. I'm curious as to how the information is possibly conveyed in a different way in both programs.

There is a big difference! The first 2 years of Med School as you know is all basic medical sciences: Medical Biochemistry, Human Genetics, Gross & Developmental Anatomy, Physiology, Pharmacology, Pathogenesis, Microbiology, Histology, Immunology. NP programs usually combine all these basic medical sciences by covering the content during the first year of the program which can consist of a semester or two each for the fileds of Pathophysiology, Pharmacotherapeutics, and Health Assessment/History Taking.

Is this enough preparation for NP practice? The initial concept for the NP role is to build upon RN skills and knowledge. It is assumed that some basic knowledge of pathophysiology, pharmacology, microbiology, anatomy/physiology have been covered in the BSN curriculum. In addition, the RN would have had actual clinical practice in his/her field of specialization as a nurse.

The advent of direct-entry and fast track NP programs have blurred the original concept of the experienced nurse advancing into the NP role. At this point, it is really difficult to tell whether we are preparing NP's adequately for the advanced role since there is so much variation in how programs are carried out.

I think you should really consider your decision in choosing a health-related career as I feel that you have many unanswered questions.

n_g · Apr 20, 2008

jzzy88,

I think that you'll be really disappointed if you go the NP route. Your posts suggest that you really want to believe that you'll be equivalent to a physician if you become an NP which is not the case. The physician route is more rigorous, more in comprehensive, and provides for 12x as many clinical training hours. You want to believe that the NP is shortcut to the MD but I'm afraid that there is no shortcut. It's not surprising then that physicians are securely perched in their dominant positions in healthcare. If at the end of the day you want to be the head honcho, then NP won't satisfy you.

allnurses Guide · Apr 20, 2008

jzzy88,
It's not surprising then that physicians are securely perched in their dominant positions in healthcare. If at the end of the day you want to be the head honcho, then NP won't satisfy you.

Could you be any more arrogant! This kind of attitude is exactly what causes patients to get hurt. Arrogant physicians and physician wannabes thinking they automatically know more than anyone else causes hostile work environments and medical errors. I have (as I am sure many nurses here) saved the doctor's butt many times from making major errors. Medicine is a team effort not some mideval feudal system. Also, if medical education is so superior to NP education why don't you provide the research that shows there are better outcomes with physician care vs. NP care? The simple reason is you can't, because the research has shown over and over that NP care is equal and/or possibly superior to that provided by physicians.

n_g · Apr 20, 2008

Could you be any more arrogant! This kind of attitude is exactly what causes patients to get hurt. Arrogant physicians and physician wannabes thinking they automatically know more than anyone else causes hostile work environments and medical errors. I have (as I am sure many nurses here) saved the doctor's butt many times from making major errors. Medicine is a team effort not some mideval feudal system. Also, if medical education is so superior to NP education why don't you provide the research that shows there are better outcomes with physician care vs. NP care? The simple reason is you can't, because the research has shown over and over that NP care is equal and/or possibly superior to that provided by physicians.

If some hospital wants to let NP's become attendings, let them. That will be your study right there. Right now, it's unethical to randomly assign patients to either NP or MD care.

The only studies that has been done to compare MD vs NP care is by Mundinger and there are so many holes in that study it's not even funny. These MD vs NP studies seem to just compare patient satisfaction in pre-diagnosed patients. Sure, Mr. Jones likes the NP who takes care of his HTN because she spends more time with him. Gee, that's surprising. Imagine an NP who has to truly function as an attending and has to treat anything that walks through the door. Any study should look at outcomes with undiagnosed patients.