"Not sure what unit you will be hired into..."

[TitaniumPlates]

So this just happened to my best friend.

Jane has been looking to relocate back to her hometown after 3 years in the ICU at a major teaching hospital. She also has 3 years in a level 1 trauma ER.

She interviewed over the phone for a position that was POSTED AS ICU about a month ago. She was immediately asked for her references, which made her feel pretty confident that she would be hired. She told me that during the interview, she asked about how many slots were open, and was told "4".

Well, apparently, the Nurse Manager has written her half a dozen emails regarding her references not answering yet. Its been a week.

That isn't my main problem with this situation. It seems that the Nurse Manager has now changed the job description to....

You will relocate across the country, go through all of our "orientation" (she will not be specific on what that orientation entails) and then one of our educators will decide what unit you will be "eligible" for.

She also told Jane that there are "a dozen or more" nurses starting in a month and there is no way she could possibly give Jane an idea of which unit has openings.

Jane called me and told me all of this nonsense...and I advised her to tell the Nurse Manager to.....well.....file that job under....Uh....NO WAY.

This isn't the first time I have been hearing about this bait and switch in the past year. It's happened to me twice and I wasn't kind about telling the facility to take that job and....

Has this happened to anyone else lately? Is this the new trend in trying to cover the garbage shifts and positions that no one can fill? These positions are outright LIES and they want the highest qualified (3 yr ICU RN) for what....med surg???

[HomeBound]

Agreed. I think its offensive that the nurse manager lied so blatantly to the best friend. It's really indicating that the nurse manager is the one who believes ICU nurses are better than med surg or whatever it was she was trying to fill when she put out false calls.

[L-ICURN, BSN, RN]

recently I noticed all the new grads who applied were applying to ICU or ER. Neuro, surg/trauma, medical, CV ICU...all of them. But none of them apply for medsurg/tele. Very few want to work the floors. The units hired what they could, but it's the floors that suffer from huge understaffing. So, while not fair that they're pulling a bait and switch, I know that with my employer, they're running into a problem staffing the floors. Maybe that's what's going on here.

No, this isn't right. Your friend has critical care experience and that's where it makes the most sense to put her.

But I expect more of this, since everyone seems to want an ICU or specialty unit.

I could be wrong though.

[Orion81RN]

1 hour ago, HomeBound said:

I didn't read it as that . I saw it as the nurse manager wants to lie about the position because nobody wants it yet the rn manager wants specialty experience .

If you or anyone here believes that a med surg nurse is interchangeable with an ICU nurse or vice versa, I would love to hear then why 5 years of ICU nursing experience is required at my hospital to be hired as an ICU nurse? And, curiously, zero years is required for med surg?

HA! Ok, you've really got me laughing now. That may be so at your hospital, but here in Chicagoland they absolutely hire ICU nurses with no experience. It's new grad residency programs, but they still hire them. Also on the flip side, many DO require a few years acute care experience in med-surg. They look for variety. Sometimes there are say, 2 openings. One with say a 5 year requirement in ICU, and one just a new grad.

[Orion81RN]

19 minutes ago, L-ICURN said:

recently I noticed all the new grads who applied were applying to ICU or ER. Neuro, surg/trauma, medical, CV ICU...all of them. But none of them apply for medsurg/tele. Very few want to work the floors. The units hired what they could, but it's the floors that suffer from huge understaffing. So, while not fair that they're pulling a bait and switch, I know that with my employer, they're running into a problem staffing the floors. Maybe that's what's going on here.

No, this isn't right. Your friend has critical care experience and that's where it makes the most sense to put her.

But I expect more of this, since everyone seems to want an ICU or specialty unit.

I could be wrong though.

The very reason med/surg/tele repulses me is the staffing. I'm not stepping foot onto a med-surg unit with ratios of > 5. It has nothing to do with the type of nursing. I'd love med-surg. The ratios...forget it. I'm simply not doing it. (Not that I have choice since I don't have my BSN, but still. It's principle lol.) When I get my BSN, if nothing has changed, I'm not applying to understaffed units. I'll stick with outpatient, private duty, home health... It's a shame bc I think I'd be a great acute care nurse.

[TitaniumPlates]

Finally. THIS is what I asked. Is this happening to anyone else.

It surprises me that the attitude is to divert from the original question and have panties in a bunch over wording that can and has been misconstrued into something that's not even intended.

I don't have to walk anything back. The fact of the matter is, that ICU, PICU, Cards, ER, OR---are highly specialized that take YEARS of specialty training to do. I have had floor nurse come to the ER and make it for one single day and then threaten to quit if they are floated again. I have had ICU nurses come to the ER and do the same. I personally would never, ever be a med surg-tele nurse because I feel that having 6-8:1 is NOT giving proper care to any patient. It's a disaster waiting to happen up there on the floors in my hospital.That's another conversation altogether.

My friend not only has the certifications in both ER and ICU---she has level 1 experience, 6 years of it. She can flex back and forth between Charge, Float and Staff. She can and has floated to MED SURG and aced that floor like a boss.

She deserves the truth---as do all nurses. ALL OF THEM. This nurse manager is a POS and I for one am sick and tired of the managers doing this crap.

I also haven't heard from any of the managers on this board---I find them to be conspicuously silent on subjects such as truthfulness, honesty, integrity and fairness (unless it's to ask..."what is that YOU consider 'fair'. which is just a backhanded way of saying...well...I, as the manager, since I want my bonus, think it's perfectly fair to cheat my employees.)

It chaps my hide that anybody would think that this bait and switch is okay because hey---she's an ICU RN and she thinks she's better than us Med Surg nurses.

She worked effing hard to get where she is--and she didn't deserve to be lied to, using her desire to be near her family and taking advantage.

[TitaniumPlates]

14 minutes ago, Orion81RN said:

HA! Ok, you've really got me laughing now. That may be so at your hospital, but here in Chicagoland they absolutely hire ICU nurses with no experience. It's new grad residency programs, but they still hire them. Also on the flip side, many DO require a few years acute care experience in med-surg. They look for variety. Sometimes there are say, 2 openings. One with say a 5 year requirement in ICU, and one just a new grad.

New grad residencies are not even in the same realm as attempting to hire an experienced ICU/ED RN into a position.

I also saw a major teaching hospital hire new grads into their NICU and other ICUs....and that is one hospital that I wouldn't allow my dog to die in.

Just saying.

[L-ICURN, BSN, RN]

7 minutes ago, Orion81RN said:

The very reason med/surg/tele repulses me is the staffing. I'm not stepping foot onto a med-surg unit with ratios of > 5. It has nothing to do with the type of nursing. I'd love med-surg. The ratios...forget it. I'm simply not doing it. (Not that I have choice since I don't have my BSN, but still. It's principle lol.) When I get my BSN, if nothing has changed, I'm not applying to understaffed units. I'll stick with outpatient, private duty, home health... It's a shame bc I think I'd be a great acute care nurse.

When I did tele on nights (my first job), it was common practice to give us 8 patients each. We had active heart attacks show up, cath lab patients, and other fun stuff. As a new grad at the time, that was just too much. I think the new grads hear the horror stories and just won't do it. My manager said they were trying to get new grads to apply to out trauma medsurg floor, but only 1 took the job. Everyone else turned it down.

I learned from some great nurses about time management on that job. But I would never do it again.

[nursenmom3]

I think that the accusation that the nurse manager lied is unfair. 4 weeks is a long time, it’s possible, for example, that other candidates have been given offers for the original positions but because they haven’t signed on the dotted line the nurse manager is still checking references for this one. Meanwhile other positions have opened. Or maybe there are internal candidates and she thinks it likely that one will be selected making an opening in another position.

Nurse manager doesn’t know the specifics of the candidate’s situation. Is it “I am desperate to get away from my current situation because my supervisor is awful” or “I am desperate to get home to be close to my sick mother”? In that case the candidate might well appreciate and accept an offer that is slightly different than what they applied for. On the other hand, maybe the candidate is in a position to be picky in which case they can politely say that they are only interested in ICU and the nurse manager can either discontinue the process, or take that into account as she makes her decision or keep the application open in case an opening comes up.

[TitaniumPlates]

Yes...she does know the "situation of the candidate". This is what an interview is for.

The position stated "ICU RN" opening. Not "oh...we'll decide after you relocate and do orientation to some unknown unit...and then...maybe sort of decide if you can stay ICU or whatever..."

The lie is the "ICU RN" post.

The lie is that there were 4 openings (in actuality, there were "over a dozen")

The lie is that manager "has no idea what unit" my friend is to be hired and oriented to.

What about this is truthful or unfair of us to expect a straight answer?

[nursenmom3]

15 minutes ago, TitaniumPlates said:

Yes...she does know the "situation of the candidate". This is what an interview is for.

The position stated "ICU RN" opening. Not "oh...we'll decide after you relocate and do orientation to some unknown unit...and then...maybe sort of decide if you can stay ICU or whatever..."

The lie is the "ICU RN" post.

The lie is that there were 4 openings (in actuality, there were "over a dozen")

The lie is that manager "has no idea what unit" my friend is to be hired and oriented to.

What about this is truthful or unfair of us to expect a straight answer?

As a hiring manager you are not allowed to ask questions that open you up to the possibility of being accused of discrimination. So, when the candidate tells you that they are moving to be close to parents you don’t follow up with questions to ferret out whether the candidate’s mother is sick or they are leaving an abusive spouse and need mom for childcare (reasons that might indicate an urgency about moving).

Similarly candidates are generally advised not to talk badly about current or previous employers, so the manager doesn’t know how desperate the candidate is to move.

The things you posted are only lies if the situation didn’t change. As I said, 4 weeks is a long time.

I haven’t been involved in hiring for nursing much, but I recently was involved on the parent committee for hiring teachers for my kids’ parochial school. We advertised a third grade position but between placing the ad and interviewing the second grade teacher decided to move up with her class, and the fifth grade teacher’s husband got transferred. So, suddenly we had 2nd and 5th, except the first grade teacher was also thinking about moving up. Fortunately our first choice candidate was willing to accept that uncertainty and signed a contract that guaranteed a job in grades 1-5. But she absolutely could have turned us down. That doesn’t mean we were wrong to ask.

Were we lying when we posted that we had 1 3rd grade opening when we eventually had 2 in other grades? No, and you don’t know that this manager was either.

[TitaniumPlates]

Sigh. I will explain this one more time.

The posting was for ICU NURSE. PERIOD.

The interviewer asked her why she wanted to relocate to the east coast from the west coast. ERGO---the interviewer knew that she wanted to move closer to her family. This is not an "illegal question" which is truly ignorant of you to state.

Any job I've ever been up for that would have me move cross country (i've done this 4 times) or even across states---THEY ASK YOU WHY YOU WOULD WANT TO MOVE THAT FAR. It's because they want to know how serious you are about moving.. Do you have ties? Are you just looking and wasting their time?

does this clear things up for you?

THE JOB WAS POSTED AS AN ICU NURSE POSITION.

THE JOB WAS POSTED AS AN ICU NURSE POSITION.

SHE WAS INTERVIEWED UNDER THE PRETENSE THAT THIS WAS AN ICU NURSE POSITION.

Any further clarification needed? Good lord almighty.

THE. JOB. WAS. POSTED. AS. AN. ICU. POSITION.

THEN the RN Mgr, once she had interviewed with my friend---and asked for references---and had her sign forms to get her background check---the Manager dropped it on her that it was "UNKNOWN" what unit my friend would orient into.

Do you get it?

She wanted my friend to RELOCATE 3000 miles for a job that was POSTED as ICU, only to be told that it was "actually unknown" and that "a dozen others" were also "orienting into the unknown" and they would choose after an educator decided in 3 months---what unit she would be assigned to.

DO YOU GET IT?

[tropsnegRN, ADN, BSN, RN]

Are you sure that the place doesn't have multiple ICUs? My hospital, which is a smaller hospital has 3 separate ICU units: MICU, SICU, CCU. My best friend works for a much larger hospital who has even more than that: Neuro ICU, STICU, MICU, SICU, Neonatal ICU, etc. etc. Did your friend try to get additional information about the orientation and what type of units? I don't understand the amount of hostility within this post.