Not a real nurse??

Nurses LPN/LVN

Published

When I am in the capacity of charge nurse on my LTC unit , I find it humilliating and frustrating that I have to find an RN to sign off on my MD orders , and if we have a fall only they can do the assessment. No wonder they treat us as if we are not " real " nurses.

When I am in the capacity of charge nurse on my LTC unit , I find it humilliating and frustrating that I have to find an RN to sign off on my MD orders , and if we have a fall only they can do the assessment. No wonder they treat us as if we are not " real " nurses.

Amazing how the scope of practice differs from state to state. I'm licensed in Ohio and Kentucky (work in Ky). In both states LPN's take orders, sign off on them, and carry them out. If someone falls, or we get an admission Lpn's do all the paperwork. The RN's are supposed to do a couple of the assessment sheets (rumor has it), but after 5pm, they're gone.

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When I am in the capacity of charge nurse on my LTC unit , I find it humilliating and frustrating that I have to find an RN to sign off on my MD orders , and if we have a fall only they can do the assessment. No wonder they treat us as if we are not " real " nurses.

OH, and I'd NEVER sign off on an order I didn't hear with my own ears. I learned that the hard way once. Never again.

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As a matter of fact YES, I do think BSN's should get more compensation for their added time in school! I guess what I didn't realize as an LPN, and some of you don't realize either, is how much work actually is involved in becoming an R.N. I spent many a day and night pouring over algebra and writing English comp papers. I used to think I did the same job and knew as much as an R.N.--I found out pretty quickly!!! The English, Algebra, chem, micro, A & P's, electives, psych, developmental psych, medical ethics, human nutrition are just the tip of ice berg. Many LPN's didn't even make it past the micro at my community college--it was to tough they said (many of us did make it also). The added in depth nursing courses were tough and made me realize all I didn't know. My clinical was from hell ( I did all my generals at my local CC and then did the EC LPN to RN program). The added responsibility of the RN is a big thing. I realize LPN's are licensed but they still are under the direction of the R.N. Before you say RN's are lazy or that you know what they do ask yourself if you have taken this course work...if not then you can't validate your opinion because you have not stood on both sides of the fence. Do not tell me you have the same knowledge and scope until you have been in similar shoes. No, LPN's typically don't have all the generals and NO they don't have the added in depth nursing courses. SHeeshhh, you all say RN's are arrogant look at some of your comments that are one sided. Some of us who have been on both sides can make valid claims. I was a CNA 4 years, LPN 10 years, and just graduated ADN. Rather than bicker we need to repect each other. I loved being an LPN. I appreciate those that are BSN's. Personally, I think if you are always saying you do what RN's do, and LPN's work circles around RN's, then you have some insecurity issues. Many an RN can work circles around LPN's too! When people say RN's are the professional nurse, it is absolutely true--look at your nurse practice act. I find that people get upset over things that are true. There are good and bad nurses at all levels! If you are unsatisfied with your scope then hit the books....you will likely find out just the difference then!

Karen

Okay, this might be a little :offtopic: but..........

You know something I think is funny? Many of the RNs who say "you're not a professional", ya'll all know th' rest, "you didn't get as much training" yayayayayayayayayaya!!!! These same nurses will say, a BSN shouldn't get paid more than an ADN.

And what's their excuse????? Because the do the SAME thing!..... :rotfl: (You know kind of like LVNs do except hanging blood and pushing a few different IV meds, maybe makin' supervisory visits too)

So then we must ask ourselves, "why should I continue with my education???" "Is it going to do me any good???" We hurt our profession by not valuing each and every member of our body (and this is really extreme but I think this includes our nurse aides as well).

Do many other professions have this same lack of respect for eachother???

For instance, do you think the following quote encourages continued scholarship or just sounds condescending?

Originally Posted by purplemania

yes, you are less qualified to take orders. You chose to be that way when you stopped your education. I am limited by my choices too. Either go back to school or lobby congress to change the laws.

I'm not so sure I would use this technique to develop a "trusting, nonjudgemental, encouraging" relationship with a patient. Why don't we apply the same principles we use with patients to eachother????

Isn't that the key to nursing? Isn't that what makes us set apart from all other professions....caring?

Dunno, I realize I didn't keep this "short". I just don't understand why we don't care for eachother... :o

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Specializes in home & public health, med-surg, hospice.
SHeeshhh, you all say RN's are arrogant look at some of your comments that are one sided. Karen

Was I being one-sided? Didn't realize that! In fact, I thought I had stressed the importance of respect for nurses at all levels..???

BTW, I'm in my junior year of a BSN program so I'm kind of familiar with the pre-reqs, got A's in all of 'em, so yeah, I know what all's involved. However, the only difference between me and alot (not all but i assert ALOT) of LVNs who stay LVNs throughout their working career and never get to advance is opportunity.

I was allowed to go to school (my 1st year of pre-reqs) on my mother's life insurance money. I'm fulfilling a dream (earning a higher degree) she never got to do as an ADN because she had kids she had to raise. I also work, have a family of my own and am mainly paying for school through an academic scholarship (and earned wages) but would've never been given the opportunity to achieve academic success and prove myself without first being able to get my foot through the door.

Oh yes, I know ppl will say "having kids, etc. shouldn't slow you down, you can do anything if you want it bad enough'" or whatever. But sometimes the most (and this isn't just nothin' - it's the most important job in the world) those ppl can do is take care of their own which might include working 2 jobs and other endless sacrifices just to care for their families.

Oh well, I've wandered off the subject. The fact is, there should be mutual respect for all levels of nursing and I think mainly that's what most of the LVNs here (on this particular thread) are not feeling - respect.

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Respect for all levels--I agree. I also will be starting a BSN program this summer at my local university. They have a new on-line program and local clinicals that I can do at my place of employment. Yes, going to school, working, and raising a family is hard. I have 2 kids a teen and a tot. It can be done--but it is sure tough. BTW--have all A's as well. All pre-reqs done including the ones for the BSN program. I took them all at my local CC and was on the president's list every semester, while working. I also graduated ADN with honors. You may know the challenge but not everyone on here does.

Karen

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As a matter of fact YES, I do think BSN's should get more compensation for their added time in school! I guess what I didn't realize as an LPN, and some of you don't realize either, is how much work actually is involved in becoming an R.N. I spent many a day and night pouring over algebra and writing English comp papers. I used to think I did the same job and knew as much as an R.N.--I found out pretty quickly!!! The English, Algebra, chem, micro, A & P's, electives, psych, developmental psych, medical ethics, human nutrition are just the tip of ice berg. Many LPN's didn't even make it past the micro at my community college--it was to tough they said (many of us did make it also). The added in depth nursing courses were tough and made me realize all I didn't know. My clinical was from hell ( I did all my generals at my local CC and then did the EC LPN to RN program). The added responsibility of the RN is a big thing. I realize LPN's are licensed but they still are under the direction of the R.N. Before you say RN's are lazy or that you know what they do ask yourself if you have taken this course work...if not then you can't validate your opinion because you have not stood on both sides of the fence. Do not tell me you have the same knowledge and scope until you have been in similar shoes. No, LPN's typically don't have all the generals and NO they don't have the added in depth nursing courses. SHeeshhh, you all say RN's are arrogant look at some of your comments that are one sided. Some of us who have been on both sides can make valid claims. I was a CNA 4 years, LPN 10 years, and just graduated ADN. Rather than bicker we need to repect each other. I loved being an LPN. I appreciate those that are BSN's. Personally, I think if you are always saying you do what RN's do, and LPN's work circles around RN's, then you have some insecurity issues. Many an RN can work circles around LPN's too! When people say RN's are the professional nurse, it is absolutely true--look at your nurse practice act. I find that people get upset over things that are true. There are good and bad nurses at all levels! If you are unsatisfied with your scope then hit the books....you will likely find out just the difference then!

Karen

Goodness gracious! Someone isn't reading all the posts.

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Specializes in home & public health, med-surg, hospice.
Respect for all levels--I agree. I also will be starting a BSN program this summer at my local university. They have a new on-line program and local clinicals that I can do at my place of employment. Yes, going to school, working, and raising a family is hard. I have 2 kids a teen and a tot. It can be done--but it is sure tough. BTW--have all A's as well. All pre-reqs done including the ones for the BSN program. I took them all at my local CC and was on the president's list every semester, while working. I also graduated ADN with honors. You may know the challenge but not everyone on here does.

Karen

On-line course in the BSN program???? Now that I can be jealous of!...LOL

Good luck!!!...:)

I see both sides of the argument, Karen. I just (the longer and longer I am in nursing) am so discouraged by all the division, disunity and lack of respect for eachother. I wish so much there could be an emphasis upon this issue included within our curriculum. Instead, most of what I see in regards to professionalism focuses only on individual (which I also think is important) or maybe also interdisciplinary (nurse to doctor, PT, radiology, whatever) relationships as opposed to intraprofessional relations. You know, nurse-nurse relationships, caring for eachother.

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Yes, many universities have distance/on-line RN to BSN courses now. Locally we have Florida hospital, UCF, and FSU that all offer RN to BSN on-line/distance with clinicals locally. I have decided to go with FSU because I have all the pre-reqs completed and can do the clinicals at my place of employment. Yes, the division is great but it is also not one sided. I do see RN's being arrogant to LPN's...but I also see plenty of LPN's with I am the same, I do the same thing, the RN is on her butt stuff. I don't like that.

Karen

On-line course in the BSN program???? Now that I can be jealous of!...LOL

Good luck!!!...:)

I see both sides of the argument, Karen. I just (the longer and longer I am in nursing) am so discouraged by all the division, disunity and lack of respect for eachother. I wish so much there could be an emphasis upon this issue included within our curriculum. Instead, most of what I see in regards to professionalism focuses only on individual (which I also think is important) or maybe also interdisciplinary (nurse to doctor, PT, radiology, whatever) relationships as opposed to intraprofessional relations. You know, nurse-nurse relationships, caring for eachother.

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Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.

Im not bashing EC grads here so dont flame me. It is a great way to go . But let me get this straight. You are here telling us that we dont are not up to par, when you survived the CPE based soley on your LPN skills. Then you started work as a RN with your LPN skills backing you. WOW, maybe LVN's are not so dumb after all!!!! I sense a wee bit of RNitis here ,you singling out the LPN's not being smart enough to pass college courses at the CC level ...come on and you think we are arrogant......

Many LPN's didn't even make it past the micro at my community college--it was to tough they said (many of us did make it also).
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Just a thought.

We all have the opportunity in life to further our education, if we feel devalued, or whatever. For instance, I am a nurse. For me to complain that I cant diagnose and bill patients directly, perform surgery, etc. , as MD's do, is sour grapes. I lost that right when I completed my education as an RN. The laws are the laws,(licensing) and they are in place for reasons that are apparently beyond the thought process of some posters here. It could go on forever........ if everybody was qualified to do everything, at every level, there would be no credentialing.We could all hang signs on our front doors and claim to be what we want to be. So, good luck with changing these credentialing levels, and , if you decide to go back to school to further your education to be at the level that you think you should be at in your profession, I wish you even more luck!!!!!

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Yes, I am saying that several of my class mates at my local community college did not make it through micro--and several of them were LPN's. I will also let you know that several LPN's did not make it out of my community college algebra class too! Excuse me, becuase I may stand to be corrected, but, I believe in one of your posts you say you had taken like 30 some hours in remedial classes...then how on earth can you insinuate a community college is easy? Jeez if it were so darn easy you should have whipped through those remedial math classes (point proves was it so easy???). I myself was one of those students who thought algebra would be my hang up for not going on (I used to hate math). I am not saying LPN's can't pass micro or algebra but I am saying it is tough and some don't pass it--essentially I am saying I put much effort into passing and moving on! Always in life you will see success and failure. I initially started at my community college and took all the classes required for their ADN program. I was accepted to their ADN program but did not take that route due to family issues. Are you also saying that community colleges are easy? I think mine was pretty tough. I had a friend going to local university after 2 years at my CC say it was harder than the university. NO, I did not make it through the CPNE without much study and mentoring from a preceptor at my work. There is no RNitis here. I do feel good about my accomplishments but I do not think I am better than anyone--my scope is different now--I am held to a different level of practice with greater responsiblity now. Did I say I survived the CPNE soley on my LPN knowledge??? NOPE I DID NOT!!!!!! DOn't twist and make up things that weren't said. I think LPN's are great and will always be in demand. I integrated my new theory courses into my practice. I took my more in depth courses on assessing, gained increased theory and knowledge, and learned new skills while fine tuning others... and integrated those into daily practice with my patients. I asked the hows and whys I didn't understand and gained feedback from my academic advisors and preceptor. I took a on-line care planning class with Excelsior and practiced every day for 6 months. I DID NOT PASS THE CPNE ON LPN SKILLS ALONE--I studied my butt off to learn new skills and theory and to integrate them into safe patient care. I logged umpteen hours in charting and care planning. I read many of the incredibly easy series cover to cover (fluid and electrolytes, IV therapy, assessing). You do not have a clue about the time and prep that I put into the CPNE and no I really did not base it totally on my LPN skills--I learned independently, did some precepting, and learned using different texts and cd's that correlated with the nursing classes I took. Since you have not taken the CPNE or been with me on my individual quest to pass it you can't even come close to telling me what I learned to become an RN or where that learning expeience was obtained. You were not with me when I spent weeks making notes and writing them out after reading 100+ chapters in texts to make my notes and flash cards. I believe that you did not read the post correctly--I said that LPN's have not typically taken all the course work RNs have that allow them to sit for the NCLEX RN--that has nothing to do with skills being up to par. I was talking from an educational stance not soley technical skills(although my mentor sure helped me with a lot of skills I wasn't exposed to as an LPN and gave me good rationales behind different skills and topics--geez the texts really defined so many rationales). I realize there are some techs out there that can put a foley in better than some RN's but by all means they aren't LPNs or RNs just because their skills are to par. I sense a wee bit of insecurity here (how is that for reflecting :)) Bottom line--LPN and RN are both nurses who deserve respect and recognition as nurses however their scope is not equal!!!

Im not bashing EC grads here so dont flame me. It is a great way to go . But let me get this straight. You are here telling us that we dont are not up to par, when you survived the CPE based soley on your LPN skills. Then you started work as a RN with your LPN skills backing you. WOW, maybe LVN's are not so dumb after all!!!! I sense a wee bit of RNitis here ,you singling out the LPN's not being smart enough to pass college courses at the CC level ...come on and you think we are arrogant......
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Thank you!!! Well said and 100% of what I was trying to say.

Just a thought.

We all have the opportunity in life to further our education, if we feel devalued, or whatever. For instance, I am a nurse. For me to complain that I cant diagnose and bill patients directly, perform surgery, etc. , as MD's do, is sour grapes. I lost that right when I completed my education as an RN. The laws are the laws,(licensing) and they are in place for reasons that are apparently beyond the thought process of some posters here. It could go on forever........ if everybody was qualified to do everything, at every level, there would be no credentialing.We could all hang signs on our front doors and claim to be what we want to be. So, good luck with changing these credentialing levels, and , if you decide to go back to school to further your education to be at the level that you think you should be at in your profession, I wish you even more luck!!!!!

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