Non-Nurses calling themselves a Nurse

DeLana_RN, BSN, RN · Mar 21, 2007

Hello-
I am an ARNP with a Masters of Science in nursing. One of the things that registered and licensed nurses fail to do is to report anyone representing themselves as nurses and offering medical/clinical advice. You have to be licensed by a state certifying body to call yourself a nurse and you have to be a registered nurse to give medical education but you cannot diagnose nor recommend treatment unless you have an advanced practice degree.
We as licensed professional nurses need to educate and inform the public/administrations, protect our licensures, and crack down on non-nurses. This is a serious legal issue that we need to take seriously because people get hurt by non-nurses all the time. We have standards of care we work hard to uphold and stay current on.
It is important that a written letter go to the school board, the district superintendent, and the state nursing board of quality assurance as well as the state medical boards. Does this sound harsh? No! If we were identifying ourselves as physicians, diagnosing, and treating and the state medical board found out; we would be in BIG trouble. Why do we not defend our profession to protect our patients from "well meaning" people practicing out of their scope?
This may be difficult, uncomfortable, and time consuming but please do this for our patients and our profession. Good luck! kimmercris arnp, edmonds WA

Well said! :yelclap:

DeLana

sanctuary, BSN, MSN, RN · Mar 21, 2007

Perhaps you should suggest a new award, the "Dietary Excellence" award, and have as eligible nominees not only the kitchen staff cooks but anyone who eats in the cafeteria.
How about this one: "Management Excellence" awards, and everyone who "manages" to get to work on time is eligible for nomination.
Someone should clue whoever in your administration is in charge of stupid awards that only nurses actually DO nursing, so awarding someone who does not work in that capacity an award for excellence in that capacity makes them look ridiculous. And ticks off the actual nurses even more, which is bad for recruitment and retention....

:rotfl: :roll :roll :chuckle :chuckle :roll :roll :rotfl:

[EVIL]You are so naughty!!![/EVIL]

paccookie · Mar 21, 2007

My child's school district has one nurse that is over all the schools and each school has a "nurse" that is really a CNA/EMT/medical assistant being referred to as a nurse. I, too, have a problem with that. I'm not a nurse yet, but I've worked pretty hard in my core classes thus far and I can only imagine that it's going to get even harder once I'm in the program. I think nurses deserve the same respect doctors get with their titles. The school "nurse" should be called whatever she is if she's not a nurse (LPN/LVN/RN).

sarajasmine · Mar 21, 2007

The person I'm talking about is a Nursing Assistant-NOT an LPN/LVN!

TDub, MSN, EdD · Mar 21, 2007

My mother had a cyst on her finger removed and afterward it looked pretty infected to me. I took her back to the office and asked the nurse, (as in "the nurse will see you now") what she thought. "Oh no, it's inflamed." was the answer.

I wondered how she could say that watching the pus ooze out of it with my mom's temp elevated, and I even said, "In your nursing judgement, you don't think that's infected?" Both of the women there denied anything was wrong.

They were my age or older, so I asked how long they'd been working for this Dr., where did they go to nursing school, etc. One said, "Oh, we're not really nurses, but we do all his post op care and patient teaching." (Of which my mother got none, thank you.)

They were not CMA's or CNA's which need some training, oh no, they were MA's. In this area, MAs are trained by the facility. There is no exam or standard of education. My mom knew I was furious, so she said, "Oh my daughter teaches at the school of nursing in Ann Arbor!" They both blanched and backpedaled.

The story is much longer, but the upshot was they wouldn't let me see her chart until the next morning. I had seen the pages over the MA's shoulder and the configuration wasn't the same. Entries had been squeezed in and backdated. I talked to the office manager and his explanation was that "we don't want to correct the patients when they call them nurses and make the patients feel bad." I asked several times to talk to the doctor but he was always too busy to see me.

He then went on to say sometimes the patients called him doctor and he didn't correct them since he didn't prescribe anything, just talked to them about their treatment. Can you believe that? They also did surgery in the office under anesthesia. Doesn't an RN have to be in attendance? They didn't employ a single nurse, only MAs.

This doc had a good rating from the plastic surgery board, but waited far too long to take her stitches out and even then, the wound wept until she started PT. He sent her home without pt teaching, pain meds or a number to call besides the local ER. The PT saw that the doc had missed a stitch and finished the job. Only then could her finger heal. It was months of pain and worry and now she has a huge scar. The whole point of going to an expensive plastics guy was because she's really vain about her hands and did not want a scar.

justme1972 · Mar 21, 2007

My mother had a cyst on her finger removed and afterward it looked pretty infected to me. I took her back to the office and asked the nurse, (as in "the nurse will see you now") what she thought. "Oh no, it's inflamed." was the answer.
I wondered how she could say that watching the pus ooze out of it with my mom's temp elevated, and I even said, "In your nursing judgement, you don't think that's infected?" Both of the women there denied anything was wrong.
They were my age or older, so I asked how long they'd been working for this Dr., where did they go to nursing school, etc. One said, "Oh, we're not really nurses, but we do all his post op care and patient teaching." (Of which my mother got none, thank you.)
They were not CMA's or CNA's which need some training, oh no, they were MA's. In this area, MAs are trained by the facility. There is no exam or standard of education. My mom knew I was furious, so she said, "Oh my daughter teaches at the school of nursing in Ann Arbor!" They both blanched and backpedaled.
The story is much longer, but the upshot was they wouldn't let me see her chart until the next morning. I had seen the pages over the MA's shoulder and the configuration wasn't the same. Entries had been squeezed in and backdated. I talked to the office manager and his explanation was that "we don't want to correct the patients when they call them nurses and make the patients feel bad." I asked several times to talk to the doctor but he was always too busy to see me.
He then went on to say sometimes the patients called him doctor and he didn't correct them since he didn't prescribe anything, just talked to them about their treatment. Can you believe that? They also did surgery in the office under anesthesia. Doesn't an RN have to be in attendance? They didn't employ a single nurse, only MAs.
This doc had a good rating from the plastic surgery board, but waited far too long to take her stitches out and even then, the wound wept until she started PT. He sent her home without pt teaching, pain meds or a number to call besides the local ER. The PT saw that the doc had missed a stitch and finished the job. Only then could her finger heal. It was months of pain and worry and now she has a huge scar. The whole point of going to an expensive plastics guy was because she's really vain about her hands and did not want a scar.

See, things like that make me sick. I dont' believe in frivolous medical lawsuits...but I think Doctor's are testing their malpractice insurance limits when they allow unqualified folks such as that, in my opinion, practice medicine without a license...and the REAL problem is the laws are allowing that to take place and it places the public at risk

NurseyPoo, RN · Mar 21, 2007

I was a CMA in NJ before I became an RN. In the early 90's they were trying to allow CMA's to give injections in the medical office. I worked for an OB/GYN and several patient's came in to get their Depo shots. I never felt comfortable with this...well lo-and behold one of the CMA's I worked with gave an injection wrong and the patient wound up with a nasty reaction. I never said I told you so but I wanted to. That is why we go through such rigorous training. I remember this same CMA making several other mistakes before they finally fired her. BUT, that came at what expense?

I think that a person who wants to call them self NURSE needs to have the training in order to do so. If you have not endured the long and difficult road to licensing, and have the student loans to prove it than you cannot claim to be something you are not. I worked my tail off to get to where I am and I find it really scarey when a person acts the part and they have no idea what they are doing!!! There are several CNA's at the hospital I work at that act like they know more than the nurse at times. They also do this in front of patient's and their families. I am not opposed to saying "Hey, you are not qualified to do/say that"! I have been a CMA and CNA and I know what the role is supposed to be. I guess that makes me a B----!

DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN · Mar 21, 2007

:angryfire :angryfire :angryfire This is one subject that "really" gets me angry and I am a really laid back person. I think we, as a group, of 200,000+ could make a huge statement if we took this on as a cause. We are all nurses. I realize that some of us are not but even those who are not yet nurses or just deciding to be nurses are also concerned about the title "nurse" being misused and abused. It is soooooo wrong. I liken it to taking my child to the pediatrician and a person coming in and saying "well I'm really a vet tech but I know what I'm doing". Why do we put up with this crap?????????? :nono:

:idea: I say lets do something. At best, medical assistants must wear name tags identifying them as medical assistants and they must identify themselves on the phone also. They always say "I'm dr so and so's nurse". WRONG!!!!!

niasmama · Mar 21, 2007

i work in a skilled nursing home,have a man who took classes to become a medical assistand and now is working as a charge nurse,he takes phone orders from doctors,takes off orders,draws blood,calls doctors for orders,i have been a lpn for over thirty years and it galls me that after 6-8 months of classes he is doing the same thing i am,guess i wasted my time going to nursing school......

donsterRN, ASN, BSN · Mar 21, 2007

:angryfire :angryfire :angryfire This is one subject that "really" gets me angry and I am a really laid back person. I think we, as a group, of 200,000+ could make a huge statement if we took this on as a cause. We are all nurses. I realize that some of us are not but even those who are not yet nurses or just deciding to be nurses are also concerned about the title "nurse" being misused and abused. It is soooooo wrong. I liken it to taking my child to the pediatrician and a person coming in and saying "well I'm really a vet tech but I know what I'm doing". Why do we put up with this crap??????????
I say lets do something. At best, medical assistants must wear name tags identifying them as medical assistants and they must identify themselves on the phone also. They always say "I'm dr so and so's nurse". WRONG!!!!!

I agree. I think we have to be very vigilant and assertive in making sure the person entrusted to provide nursing care for the public is who they represent themselves to be.

I never thought I'd have a personal take on this issue, but here goes. I am a nursing student. I'm also a patient who has utilized the healthcare system many times this past year. I was at a followup visit with my surgeon and I met a new employee who was wearing scrubs and a stethoscope; she looked very professional. She took my height and weight, my VS and updated my medical and medication hx. During the course of conversation, I asked her if she was a nurse (she said yes) and I asked her how long she had been in the doctor's employ (she was new that week and was still being trained.) I asked her where she went to school. She named the local business college. I clarified and asked her where she went to nursing school, and she told me the same thing. I said that the school she attended did not have a nursing program. She said that it did. I said I knew that they had a program for Medical Assistants, and she said that's the program she was in and they called themselves nurses because after all, they're the same thing. My mouth dropped open. I told her that they were most certainly not the same thing. I told her I was a student at the local diploma program and that the two did not mean we would take the same licensing exam. She said that she didn't know anything about that, but that my program was a waste of time because we had to learn all of the touchy-feely book stuff! After she left and the doctor came in, I told him about my conversation with her. He didn't seem at all concerned; in fact he referred to her as his intake nurse. I went through the entire issue with him about the title "nurse" and who was legally entitled to use it. He listened politely and didn't say much about it. Then, at the end of the session, he steered me to the checkout window, where his "scheduling nurse" would set me up with a new appointment in 6 months.

I guess my point is that this issue is probably bigger than any of us realize. My own surgeon (a man I respect deeply and owe my life to) doesn't seem bothered by it in his own staff. And yet, we really do hear it all the time. Walk down the halls of any hospital; everyone is dressed like a nurse.

The only answer I can think of is to identify the offenders and make it a big deal. The fact that we even have to consider such vigilance scares me. But what choices do we have?

TDub, MSN, EdD · Mar 21, 2007

Follow up:

I went back to the plastic surgeon's office and told the office manager I didn't have the time right now to sue them. However, my revenge was going to be that I took this episode and made a case study out of it for my students. It would be included in the coursepack as an example of how NOT to treat a patient.

You should have seen his face! He goggled a bit and said, "You can't do that, we don't give our permission." I told him he didn't have to, my mother had given me permission to use her chart.

hee hee

NurseyPoo, RN · Mar 21, 2007

Follow up:
I went back to the plastic surgeon's office and told the office manager I didn't have the time right now to sue them. However, my revenge was going to be that I took this episode and made a case study out of it for my students. It would be included in the coursepack as an example of how NOT to treat a patient.
You should have seen his face! He goggled a bit and said, "You can't do that, we don't give our permission." I told him he didn't have to, my mother had given me permission to use her chart.
hee hee

Good for you!