Non-clinical nursing - What is out there?

allnurses Guide · Jul 22, 2010

That is typically what a dietitian does.
What about getting your Master's in Nursing Administration or something along that line?

I think she's talking about a "Meals on Wheels:)" business. You don't have to be a dietician to do that.

Sarah27-- It sounds like the alternative therapies are a path that suits your natural interests. An RN and "------" is very appealing to people who aren't entirely comfortable chucking Western Medicine altogether, and despite what many people say here, the public tends to trust and respect nurses as managers of things outside the hospital.

I wish I still lived in Boulder, CO! It's Alternative Therapy Central and home of the "free birth" movement. The freebie directories in the newsstands have a staggering number of specialty certifications. There is a university there called Naropa which teaches predominantly Buddhist principles but with a broad philosophical focus. Their catalogue could spark your imagination, at the least, and they offer distance learning.

Buddhist Inspired Contemplative Education - Naropa University, Boulder, Colorado

allnurses Guide · Jul 22, 2010

QUOTE=happy2learn;4429539]I personally don't see meal prep/cooking as nursing care (unless this was apart of home health care.) That's more in the culinary field.

I wouldn't consider botox injections a whole lot more nurse-ly than having a meal delivery service. You don't have to be a dietician to know what's in the various and sundry diets people are on. Nurses educate patients all the time about their diets, and in fact may be better suited for such a venture due to their broad-based education, meaning that a nurse knows far more about diets than the dietician knows about everything else.

Dieticians rarely make home visits. The time the greatest risk for non-compliance is after they are discharged. If the service run-of-the-mill "culinary" company, there would be no assistance in providing tasty options in low-salt, diabetic, low fat meals that many people give up on because all those lists and exchange tables frustrate them and they throw them in the trash. In other words, nurses have seen too many times a 60ish guy's eyes glaze over at the mere mention of "no bacon, no cheese".

If we are talking about people being unable to prep/cook because of physical limits, then that is a part of home health care (from what I understand.)

I work in home health. Many home health agencies are owned by nurses. Home health aides wouldn't know a mechanical soft diet, or a low-protein diet from a cheeseburger. Who trains them? A nurse does. Also, the people who qualify for a daily caregiver are far less than the number who have issues with transportation, changes in mental status, being old, etc. Even if there is a caregiver or family member in the home, they usually have little to no expertise in the area of special diets.

Sorry for tangent -- but why are you trying to shoot this idea down? Sounds like it would be a great idea to me.

cmw6v8 · Jul 22, 2010

Have you thought about public health or health education? That's what I'm going into nursing for. Personally my passion is for prevention and promoting good health and wellness. Prevention is obviously what stops people from landing in the hospital in the first place. It seems like it would fall in place with your values. There are lots of opportunities from working in education to corporate wellness programs to government programs.

Or you could look into volunteer nursing to get some experience. Are you interested in international service? How about Doctors Without Borders? There are lots of programs where you can go abroad for a few months and help set up clinics and deliver care to developing/third world communities. Clinical nursing in that respect would be very different than our system here in the U.S.

Still, I think you might be able to get some experience in clinical nursing without sacrificing your morals. If you look hard enough, you could probably find some facilities in the U.S. that do practice holistic nursing and integrative medicine. The southwest and west coast states seem to be more on board with this area of practice, and I bet you can find something.

happy2learn · Jul 22, 2010

Sorry for tangent -- but why are you trying to shoot this idea down? Sounds like it would be a great idea to me.

I'm not trying to "shoot down" any idea. Since when is giving an opinion shooting down an idea?

The people who manage the meals at hospital, nursing homes, and programs such as these have culinary related degrees.

I know this from personal experience. My FIL does stuff like this. He's managed meals and menu planning at assisted living facilities. He does the tasks that you speak of and the other person spoke of. He has a culinary degree and has been a chef for many years. My husband has also been offered jobs similar to this nature. He is also a chef and working on his culinary degree. He also gets weekly emails about co-ops and such and positions like these are available to culinary students.

Hey, maybe it's different in another state. But where I live, a nurse isn't going to get a job with menu planning and such. It doesn't matter if food is related to health. It's going to be someone in the culinary field. Typically you have to be certified in sanitation by the state in order to cook for someone professionally.

Sure, she could tell people options, but the first post talked about meal prep. To me that means cutting, chopping, peeling, etc. Sorry if that person meant "discussing meal prep" instead of actually doing the prepping. I'm a chef's wife so I hear about "prep" every day.

Delivering and discussing, yes.

Prepping and cooking, no.

allnurses Guide · Jul 22, 2010

It's great that so many people in your family have "culinary degrees", or are dieticians, but many excellent cooks (which is what we are talking about here) are self taught, take a course at a vocational school, or a several week long class. The founders of Ben and Jerry's, Mrs. Field's, See's, Marie Callender's and Knott's Berry Farm were all based on home-based recipes. It's not that much of a stretch especially if your jumping off point is hospital food. A cottage industry needs imagination and drive more than to know how to chop vegetables. Perhaps a nurse won't get a job in food prep, bu.t there is absolutely no reason this:

Can you (do you like to) cook? What about a food preparation/delivery service for persons with chronic disease on special diets?
I am a nurse educator, but I also have a job as a fitness professional....I teach group fitness at our local YMCA. Do you the talent/interest in anything in the fitness industry?

. . .is any different from a daycare, botox, spa, uniform supply home health agency, or any other entrepreneurial venture, and shouldn't be separated from them based on an arbitrary designation of what a nurse "typically does". Certainly you can toss a wet blanket on what is essentially a brainstorming thread to help Sarah27. And I can express mine that your reply to iteachob was curt in your first reply, especially with your comment "that is typically what a dietician does", like you don't think a nurse educator knows what a dietician does? :confused:

happy2learn · Jul 22, 2010

it's great that so many people in your family have "culinary degrees", or are dieticians, but many excellent cooks (which is what we are talking about here) are self taught, take a course at a vocational school, or a several week long class. the founders of ben and jerry's, mrs. field's, see's, marie callender's and knott's berry farm were all based on home-based recipes. it's not that much of a stretch especially if your jumping off point is hospital food. a cottage industry needs imagination and drive more than to know how to chop vegetables. perhaps a nurse won't get a job in food prep, bu.t there is absolutely no reason this:
. . .is any different from a daycare, botox, spa, uniform supply home health agency, or any other entrepreneurial venture, and shouldn't be separated from them based on an arbitrary designation of what a nurse "typically does". certainly you can toss a wet blanket on what is essentially a brainstorming thread to help sarah27. and i can express mine that your reply to iteachob was curt in your first reply, especially with your comment "that is typically what a dietician does", like you don't think a nurse educator knows what a dietician does?

i don't understand how you can think 1 sentence was "curt." but if you think so, then i'm sorry because that was not my intention. i think sometimes we read too much into small things to make something out of nothing. :uhoh3:

i never said that only people with culinary degrees can't cook. my husband cooks at home all the time and he has made many recipes from home. my mom is a great cook. i'm a great baker. i said that to be a professional in that sort of field you typically need a degree related to that field, in the process of a degree, or at least years of experience.

who said "chop vegetables?" i said prep. prepping involves veggies, fruits, meats, fish, spices.... everything you need to do before you cook.

how did we get from special diets to fattening ben & jerry's? starting a business was not mentioned in the first post.

also, i never said hospital food. his father works at a high class assisted living facility. these people get nice, chef prepared meals. it's not the stuff you see at some nursing homes.

but personally i would never hire someone to cook for me if they never had any sort of professional experience or any references. even you mention taking a course. i would consider that some sort of professional training.

plus, they would be state trained in sanitation procedures. even the best home cooks with the best intentions may not know every proper sanitation procedure and i think we can all agree that sanitation is very important to one's health.

here are a few job postings for example:

chef - s.... community hospital associate degree in culinary arts or restaurant management required rrt and rpsgt required marketing experience preferred bachelor’s or master’s degree in nursing (nurse practitioner or clinical nurse specialist preferred) or master’s degree in social work or counseling required management experience preferred degree in nursing, social work or marketing required behavioral health experience needed interested applicants should forward resumes to

so they want someone with an msn and a culinary degree.

imagine yourself as the chef at a brand new facility that. . .

-acts as a resource to employees, which includes training/orienting, providing day-to-day work direction, and giving input on performance. assigns, monitors, and reviews progress and accuracy of work, directs efforts and provides guidance on more complex issues.

-assists with human resource responsibilities, which may include: interviewing and selection of new employees, orientation, staff development, providing performance feedback, resolution of employee concerns, and employee morale.

-prepares general and special diet foods in accordance with standardized recipes. must have working knowledge of diet manual to be able to make decisions of recipe ingredient substitutions or garnishes allowed on diet.

-prepares food and maintains efficient standards of operation. prepares food in sufficient quantities to cover all service requirements.

-assures that all food on cycle menu master is: completed by those responsible, on time, in correct quantity, and of optimum quality (appearance, taste, and temperature). monitors food temperatures and utilizes established procedures to insure safe food handling techniques and prevent bacteria contamination.

-schedules food preparation so that items such as vegetables and grilled foods are prepared in small batches continually throughout the serving period.

-assists in the planning, developing and implementing cooking standards, menus, recipes and food presentation.

-orders and plans menus for over production of food. estimates food requirements and controls serving portions, eliminating waste and leftovers. prepares production reports and food waste reports daily. evaluates reports to determine trends and develop corrective action.

-assists in the development of food production procedures to comply with the hazard analysis critical control standards and maintains compliance.

-maintains high standards of sanitation in main kitchen production area. performs quality control audits as assigned.

-establishes and manages the preventative maintenance program for all food production equipment

-the chef must be able to demonstrate knowledge and skills necessary to provide care appropriate to the age of the patients served. the individual must demonstrate knowledge of the principles of growth and development over the life span and possess the ability to assess data reflective of the patient's status and interpret the appropriate information needed to identify each patient's requirements relative to his/her age specific needs. to provide the care needed as described in the department's policies and procedures. age specific information is developed further in the departmental job standards appropriate to the individual chef.

-high school diploma or equivalent.

-knowledge skills and abilities required to perform this job are typically acquired through five years of progressively responsible experience in a large volume food preparation and distribution operation.

-serv-safe certificate granted by the national restaurant association required within one year of hire date.

-able to recognize and solve problems, level of efficiency to obtaining the objectives of the food management department.

-must have problem solving and decision-making skills.

-proficiency in meat roasting and preparation of sauces, gravies, vegetables, meats, cereal, hors d'oeuvres, eggs, soup, casseroles, frying, broiling, steaming, baking, and grilling.

chef - 34252

- ability to interpret and

follow recipes.

- positive attitude.

- dependable.

- good organizational skills.

- self-directed.

- ability to read english.

- high school education

or equivalent is

preferred.

- minimum of two years

of hotel, restaurant or

hospital cooking

experience with

knowledge of all

aspects of food preparation.

- ability to take food

service sanitation exam.

must be completed within

3 months of hire date.

job description:

in accordance with strict sanitary regulations prepare quality food for patients, home delivered meals participants, associates, visitors and catered events. participates in managing department food budget through accurate quantify food preparation (use of standardized recipes) and proper utilization of leftovers. maintain a clean and sanitary work environment according to health department regulations. these tasks will be accomplished through teamwork, flexibility to change, striving for continued excellence and continued process improvement, and fostering diversity by treating all associates and customers with respect, integrity and dignity.

accountabilities:

1. quality food production for the assigned area of responsibility including patients (regular and modified diets), home delivered meals program and cafeteria meals.

2. ability to ensure that the menu items are correctly prepared according to standardized recipes.

3. maintenance of a safe and sanitary work environment, observing sanitation and safety regulations, ensuring compliance and licensure with regulatory agencies.

4. observes high personal hygiene standards and conforms to proper dress code according to established hospital appearance policy.

5. participation in cost containment by utilizing standardized recipes, portion control and proper utilization of leftovers.

6. proper attendance at meetings, inservices and training sessions to broaden knowledge base and to enhance skills.

7. ability to provide excellence in customer service in accordance with service first expectations and the hospital customer service standards policy.

8. attendance.

if she gets some professional cooking experience and gets sanitation certified, then sure. it would be a good option. she could get a personal chef certificate in like 6-9 months. otherwise she would only be able to compete with entry level cook positions or as a nutrition assistant.

she could work for meals on wheels, but the meals would be prepared by trained cooks.

we need to just agree to disagree.

HyperSaurus, RN, BSN · Jul 23, 2010

I can understand not liking hospital nursing and preferring a holistic/hemeopathic approach to medicine, but I am curious HOW you made it through nursing school with out quitting--considering how much western medicine gets crammed down one's throat.

MInurse.st · Jul 23, 2010

i don't understand how you can think 1 sentence was "curt." but if you think so, then i'm sorry because that was not my intention. i think sometimes we read too much into small things to make something out of nothing.
i never said that only people with culinary degrees can't cook. my husband cooks at home all the time and he has made many recipes from home. my mom is a great cook. i'm a great baker. i said that to be a professional in that sort of field you typically need a degree related to that field, in the process of a degree, or at least years of experience.
who said "chop vegetables?" i said prep. prepping involves veggies, fruits, meats, fish, spices.... everything you need to do before you cook.
how did we get from special diets to fattening ben & jerry's? starting a business was not mentioned in the first post.
also, i never said hospital food. his father works at a high class assisted living facility. these people get nice, chef prepared meals. it's not the stuff you see at some nursing homes.
but personally i would never hire someone to cook for me if they never had any sort of professional experience or any references. even you mention taking a course. i would consider that some sort of professional training.
plus, they would be state trained in sanitation procedures. even the best home cooks with the best intentions may not know every proper sanitation procedure and i think we can all agree that sanitation is very important to one's health.
here are a few job postings for example:
chef - s.... community hospital associate degree in culinary arts or restaurant management required rrt and rpsgt required marketing experience preferred bachelor's or master's degree in nursing (nurse practitioner or clinical nurse specialist preferred) or master's degree in social work or counseling required management experience preferred degree in nursing, social work or marketing required behavioral health experience needed interested applicants should forward resumes to
so they want someone with an msn and a culinary degree.
imagine yourself as the chef at a brand new facility that. . .
- acts as a resource to employees, which includes training/orienting, providing day-to-day work direction, and giving input on performance. assigns, monitors, and reviews progress and accuracy of work, directs efforts and provides guidance on more complex issues.
- assists with human resource responsibilities, which may include: interviewing and selection of new employees, orientation, staff development, providing performance feedback, resolution of employee concerns, and employee morale.
- prepares general and special diet foods in accordance with standardized recipes. must have working knowledge of diet manual to be able to make decisions of recipe ingredient substitutions or garnishes allowed on diet.
- prepares food and maintains efficient standards of operation. prepares food in sufficient quantities to cover all service requirements.
- assures that all food on cycle menu master is: completed by those responsible, on time, in correct quantity, and of optimum quality (appearance, taste, and temperature). monitors food temperatures and utilizes established procedures to insure safe food handling techniques and prevent bacteria contamination.
- schedules food preparation so that items such as vegetables and grilled foods are prepared in small batches continually throughout the serving period.
- assists in the planning, developing and implementing cooking standards, menus, recipes and food presentation.
- orders and plans menus for over production of food. estimates food requirements and controls serving portions, eliminating waste and leftovers. prepares production reports and food waste reports daily. evaluates reports to determine trends and develop corrective action.
- assists in the development of food production procedures to comply with the hazard analysis critical control standards and maintains compliance.
- maintains high standards of sanitation in main kitchen production area. performs quality control audits as assigned.
- establishes and manages the preventative maintenance program for all food production equipment
- the chef must be able to demonstrate knowledge and skills necessary to provide care appropriate to the age of the patients served. the individual must demonstrate knowledge of the principles of growth and development over the life span and possess the ability to assess data reflective of the patient's status and interpret the appropriate information needed to identify each patient's requirements relative to his/her age specific needs. to provide the care needed as described in the department's policies and procedures. age specific information is developed further in the departmental job standards appropriate to the individual chef.
- high school diploma or equivalent.
- knowledge skills and abilities required to perform this job are typically acquired through five years of progressively responsible experience in a large volume food preparation and distribution operation.
- serv-safe certificate granted by the national restaurant association required within one year of hire date.
- able to recognize and solve problems, level of efficiency to obtaining the objectives of the food management department.
- must have problem solving and decision-making skills.
- proficiency in meat roasting and preparation of sauces, gravies, vegetables, meats, cereal, hors d'oeuvres, eggs, soup, casseroles, frying, broiling, steaming, baking, and grilling.
chef - 34252
- ability to interpret and
follow recipes.
- positive attitude.
- dependable.
- good organizational skills.
- self-directed.
- ability to read english.
- high school education
or equivalent is
preferred.
- minimum of two years
of hotel, restaurant or
hospital cooking
experience with
knowledge of all
aspects of food preparation.
- ability to take food
service sanitation exam.
must be completed within
3 months of hire date.
job description:
in accordance with strict sanitary regulations prepare quality food for patients, home delivered meals participants, associates, visitors and catered events. participates in managing department food budget through accurate quantify food preparation (use of standardized recipes) and proper utilization of leftovers. maintain a clean and sanitary work environment according to health department regulations. these tasks will be accomplished through teamwork, flexibility to change, striving for continued excellence and continued process improvement, and fostering diversity by treating all associates and customers with respect, integrity and dignity.
accountabilities:
1. quality food production for the assigned area of responsibility including patients (regular and modified diets), home delivered meals program and cafeteria meals.
2. ability to ensure that the menu items are correctly prepared according to standardized recipes.
3. maintenance of a safe and sanitary work environment, observing sanitation and safety regulations, ensuring compliance and licensure with regulatory agencies.
4. observes high personal hygiene standards and conforms to proper dress code according to established hospital appearance policy.
5. participation in cost containment by utilizing standardized recipes, portion control and proper utilization of leftovers.
6. proper attendance at meetings, inservices and training sessions to broaden knowledge base and to enhance skills.
7. ability to provide excellence in customer service in accordance with service first expectations and the hospital customer service standards policy.
8. attendance.
if she gets some professional cooking experience and gets sanitation certified, then sure. it would be a good option. she could get a personal chef certificate in like 6-9 months. otherwise she would only be able to compete with entry level cook positions or as a nutrition assistant.
she could work for meals on wheels, but the meals would be prepared by trained cooks.
we need to just agree to disagree.

i really think that nursel56 was suggesting that the op go into a nutrition related field more as an entrepreneur, ie. starting her own food service/delivery business for patients that require specific diets. this would not require a culinary background, as it would be her own business. i don't think nursel56 was suggesting that the op get a job in a hospital that was nutrition related, which is what you're referring to, because the op already stated that she does not want a hospital job. anyway, just trying to clarify..

allnurses Guide · Jul 23, 2010

Exactly, MInurse.st. Thanks.

happy2learn · Jul 23, 2010

I really think that nursel56 was suggesting that the OP go into a nutrition related field more as an entrepreneur, ie. starting her own food service/delivery business for patients that require specific diets. This would not require a culinary background, as it would be her own business. I don't think nursel56 was suggesting that the OP get a job in a hospital that was nutrition related, which is what you're referring to, because the OP already stated that she does not want a hospital job. Anyway, just trying to clarify..

Thank you for attempting to clarify. I actually wanted to edit a bunch of that out because it was too long, but I came back to the computer too late, oh well.

I had stated many times that delivery is okay (as in Meals on Wheels or that type of business.) The original post mentioned cooking (which is what I've focused on), not just delivery.

If the OP didn't want to spend money on more education I would doubt they have the money to start their own business. At least I wouldn't!

The cooking procedures and such would be different just because the meals are being delivered to someones home vs. a bed in a hospital, they would actually be a bit more complicated, so the same experience would still need to be required.

Anyways, I've said all I feel like so I'm done on that topic. lol

happy2learn · Jul 23, 2010

Back to the OP, sorry for having your thread hijacked, lol.

I hope you find something that works out for you. There seem to be many options.

Sarah27 · Jul 23, 2010

HyperSaurus, SN - Good question. I almost didn't make it through school, I looked at my different options and met with a career counselor even to discuss them and still ended up deciding to finish. I didn't want to have 3/4 of a degree, I had already worked so hard and spent alot of money and no one can ever take your education away from you.

happy2learn and MInurse.st - I probably should have mentioned sooner that I have no interest in going to culinary school or cooking for that matter. But I appreciate all of the great advice, even though my thread was hijacked. :)