No gloves ever?!?

Nurses Safety

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So I'm in my last rotation of nursing school and I followed a nurse in CVICU today. Well from the getgo he mentioned he's "old school" and that's fine with me. In fact I get excited when I hear that as I figure I'll learn a lot. Well... While this nurse let me do almost everything and I completely appreciate that experience, he didn't wear a pair of gloves the whole day. I watched him do peg meds, draw blood, suction, and clean a diarrhea bottom (touching testicles and all) WITHOUT gloves. I got excited at one point cause he pulled a pair of gloves out BUT THEN he handed them to me, none for him. In fact, when cleaning the poop he said "yeah, I know im being naughty." So, I thought that if he doesn't use gloves then he must scrub his hands. Nope, 5 second rinse, no lather...that's it. I was shocked....

Needless to say...didn't shake his hand at the end of the day.

Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.

I personally, do not care if a nurse puts themselves at risk, but they have no right to put other patients at risk.

You need to report that to your nursing instructor.

If he is not even washing his hands, he is potentially spreading germs to other patients that he sees...can you imagine if he was taking care of a c-diff patient?

Seriously...I know that many old-timers don't use gloves to start IV's etc because they went their whole career "feeling" for veins without gloves and I am sure that the change to gloves proved difficult for many of them..but for everything?

Yuk!

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Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but I was taught in my CNA course that touching a patient during peri-care without gloves can be classified as sexual abuse. Without a barrier between your skin and the patient's, there is too much intimate contact going on and that's definitely not okay. Was the patient A&O3 or not? If this patient was aware the nurse wasn't wearing gloves, I'm sure he's quite disturbed too.

I think someone handed you a load when you were in school.

Glove/no glove will never be a defense in court if a patient was truly sexually abused. If you did peri-care on a female patient and wore a glove and put your fingers in their lady partsl area and had no medical reason/order for doing so...wearing a glove and claiming it was "peri-care" is not going to win anyone a defense.

I think it is horrible that instructors tell students things like that when there isn't a bit of truth to any of it.

Not your fault.

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i would not even want him to hand me gloves with his dirty hands, for me to put on. and why would he feel that it is ok to touch a patient's private parts with no gloves on? and now washing his hands?...he obviously knows that he is doing wrong, because he said so himself! i just don't get how any nurse, or any person in healthcare, for that matter, could empathize with him. there is no reason in my opinion why someone would not wash their hands, especially after doing all that this so called nurse did without gloves. he is definitely not giving his patients the choice of whether or not they want to be touched with no gloves, or have bacteria transmitted to them. he has no right to make that choice for his patients. he is not only putting himself and his patients in danger, but his co-workers as well. i mean, who wants to work with someone that will walk around touching everything that you will also touch, with his dirty hands? but then again, i'm one of those nurses that wipe down my station, computer and phone at my desk with antibacterial wipes before i sit down. i definitely use gloves on all my patients, because even the ones that come in with cp, can suddenly come back with a positive mrsa or c-diff result. i would rather a patient be upset at me for using gloves to give them po meds, than endanger the patient, myself, and my co-workers. and i definitely explain to patients that my putting on gloves is for their protection as well.

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The patient was on a vent but he was very aware, not sedated at all. He was making hand motions for us to go away. Honestly, although he didnt do anything suggestive of sexual abuse (other than his creepy comment) if I were touched (or grabbed is more what I would call it) by someone down there like this patient was I would feel violated. It was just a really rough and nasty way to touch a patient.

As the night went by yesterday I thought more about it as it just bothered me so much. Another thing he said to the patient earlier in the day that was extremely un-therapeutic was when he was taping his oro-gastric tube to the vent tube and the patient was getting a little agitated. He said to thd patient "don't fight me, cause I'll win."

So although I mentioned the whole situation in post conference I emailed my instructor about this and she said she was bothered by it as well and will check into the proper steps that need to be taken to report it.

As for "making a habit of being a spy"...that's by no means the correct terminology. As a student I've witnessed many careless things nurses have done but none I felt so strongly put the patients that I was caring for that day, as well as the staff on the floor, at risk.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
he is an ignorant idiot and he is not following standard precautions. i would immediately report him to his supervisor. in your case i would not hesitate to report him to the infection control nurse and called my instructor over and asked for a different nurse.

i love it! some of you who are calling this guy ignorant, idiot, etc. and who would not hesitate to "report him" to anyone you can think of are probably the first to whine about being bullied or being thrown under the bus. and if it happens to you, you'll be here on-line complaining that "he shoulda just told me instead of going to the manager behind my back."

this guy has a bad habit -- a very bad habit. you could probably still learn a great deal from him. instead of going behind his back, why not just talk to him about this? or if you're not brave enough, ask someone you respect (your instructor maybe?) to talk to him. he knows he's not following standard precautions, and he knows why that's not a good idea. maybe you or your instructor could tell him that he's setting a bad example for students and you know there's so much you could learn from him if you weren't so distracted by the gloving issue.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
that is f-o-u-l!

and btw, i've only been working as a nurse for about a year but feel like the term "old school" when referring to a colleague essentially means crazy @$$ shortcuts taken. i just don't get it, especially when one's personal hygiene/staying dro-free is at stake.

one old school nurse on my floor had blood arrive for her patient. over 1.5 hours later that blood was still sitting at the nurse's station. i offered to take it back to the blood bank for her. her reponse? "it's fine." and it was hung 20 minutes later. yikes.

as long as the transfusion is finished before the blood has been out of the blood bank for four hours, it's fine.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
obviously, all i can say anything to is my instructor and i'm sure that's as far as it will go as we are "guests" in this hospital. however, this nurse was in trouble for something recently and i didn't hear the full story but i'm sure with what i witnessed today it was because he felt above having to do something.

as for ppe they go both ways. i've been on both ends...a patient and a care provider. ive seen a doctor suction someones ear and walk across the hall to me without washing his hands. damn right i asked him to wash them before he touched me. i would hope that if i ever am incapacitated one day that there's someone out there watching out for care providers like this. it's disgusting and unsafe to both parties.

do nurses eat their young? is there such a thing as bullying or lateral violence?

you know the nurse was in trouble and you admit you don't know the whole story but you're proclaiming to strangers on the internet that you know the nurse was at fault because "he felt above having to do something."

actually, you don't know anything about it, and if you repeat what you've just said to others in your class or at the hospital, you're guilty of gossiping and maligning this man's reputation. most of you would consider that "bullying" if it happened to you.

stop and think about that one for a moment.

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i love it! some of you who are calling this guy ignorant, idiot, etc. and who would not hesitate to "report him" to anyone you can think of are probably the first to whine about being bullied or being thrown under the bus. and if it happens to you, you'll be here on-line complaining that "he shoulda just told me instead of going to the manager behind my back."

this guy has a bad habit -- a very bad habit. you could probably still learn a great deal from him. instead of going behind his back, why not just talk to him about this? or if you're not brave enough, ask someone you respect (your instructor maybe?) to talk to him. he knows he's not following standard precautions, and he knows why that's not a good idea. maybe you or your instructor could tell him that he's setting a bad example for students and you know there's so much you could learn from him if you weren't so distracted by the gloving issue.

per my last post, i have reported it to my instructor and that's as far as i can go as a student. also, like i said in my first post i tried to look at it as a learning experience as i did learn a few things. the point of this thread though was not what i learned but rather the gross disadherance (sp?) to rules and my question of patient safety. i don't know how many times yesterday i heard..."oh, if *insert nurse managers name here* saw this she'd flip." or, "i know it's not right but like i said i'm 'old school.'" also, beyond a le pulse check and anterior lung sounds in the am all we did as far as assessment goes is write vitals down from the monitors every hour. that's not how i want to be as a nurse, and i'm thankful to have learned that yesterday.

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do nurses eat their young? is there such a thing as bullying or lateral violence?

you know the nurse was in trouble and you admit you don't know the whole story but you're proclaiming to strangers on the internet that you know the nurse was at fault because "he felt above having to do something."

actually, you don't know anything about it, and if you repeat what you've just said to others in your class or at the hospital, you're guilty of gossiping and maligning this man's reputation. most of you would consider that "bullying" if it happened to you.

stop and think about that one for a moment.

now i'm gossiping!! as a student we tell our experience at our post conference and how we felt about it. that's not gossiping. i have very strong gut feelings that what happened yesterday was completely wrong. completely, no question about it. i didn't feel comfortable learning much from this nurse because of it. this feeling has never happened to me before but as far as i'm concerned i did that right thing by reporting to my instructor.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
per my last post, i have reported it to my instructor and that's as far as i can go as a student. also, like i said in my first post i tried to look at it as a learning experience as i did learn a few things. the point of this thread though was not what i learned but rather the gross disadherance (sp?) to rules and my question of patient safety. i don't know how many times yesterday i heard..."oh, if *insert nurse managers name here* saw this she'd flip." or, "i know it's not right but like i said i'm 'old school.'" also, beyond a le pulse check and anterior lung sounds in the am all we did as far as assessment goes is write vitals down from the monitors every hour. that's not how i want to be as a nurse, and i'm thankful to have learned that yesterday.

oh to be 25 again and know all the answers!

if you keep an open mind, there is an awful lot you can learn from an experienced nurse -- any experienced nurse -- and most of it will be how you do want to be a nurse. at least, if you're honest and capable of taking education where you find it.

as for reporting the guy: honorable behavior would dictate that you at least attempt to discuss the situation with the person involved before you even think about "reporting him." did you attempt that discussion first?

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oh to be 25 again and know all the answers!

if you keep an open mind, there is an awful lot you can learn from an experienced nurse -- any experienced nurse -- and most of it will be how you do want to be a nurse. at least, if you're honest and capable of taking education where you find it.

as for reporting the guy: honorable behavior would dictate that you at least attempt to discuss the situation with the person involved before you even think about "reporting him." did you attempt that discussion first?

as a student i must be careful what i say, hence discussing it with my instructor and not him. with due respect my age has nothing to do with this and i never claimed to know it all. i'm learning day in and day out of this program, and will always be learning something new in nursing. you also are making assumptions without knowing the entire story though. however, thanks for trying to provide another perspective but honestly this nurse is not someone i wish to learn from which is my personal choice.

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I understand all about people who don't know what they think they know reporting people etc. However, I can't see what there is to discuss with an experienced nurse who displays a blatant disregard for basic protocol. Does the student really need to have a discussion and educate an experienced RN about something as basic as hand hygiene and wearing gloves?

I think not. That RN is fully aware of what they're doing and it's really an issue of I'll do as I please rather than a case of ignorance.

Wash your hands and wear the proper PPE is pounded into our skulls from the time we are students until the day we retire. If you went to school before the glove era then surely you have been brought up to speed on the CDC guidelines in the last 25 years or so?

What is there to clarify? It's not like it's a complicated procedure that the nurse has learned how to do a certain way after many years of experience. We're talking about putting on gloves and washing your hands with soap and water for more than 5 seconds.

Also, everyone under 50 isn't a disrespectful, idiotic, whipper-snapper trying to get the experienced nurses in trouble.

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