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Discussion

No conscience

Hi all, as usual I have a strange question. Here in the Bay Area the trial of Elizabeth Holmes is a big deal because she was the youngest female billionaire start up founder, and because people say the "fake it til you make it" culture of Silicon Valley start ups is also on trial (the idea of pitching products to investors before they actually exist or work). If you're not familiar, she started a blood testing company and promised to be able to do over 200 lab tests with one drop of blood from a finger stick. She raised $1 billion from wealthy investors without ever proving her technology worked. In reality it didn't work. Pts got inaccurate labs, false diagnoses, etc. She shows no remorse.

I've also listened to true crime podcasts and am surprised at how many feature medical professionals! Some who kill patients on purpose, others who continuously make huge errors (including surgeons who butcher or accidentally kill pts.) A common theme is they never seem to feel guilty. Have you ever worked with someone like this? I'm fascinated by it, because I sometimes have an overactive conscience and feel extreme guilt. I wonder how it feels to just not care. Scary! 

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    I work with people with no conscience/remorse on a daily basis.  Anti-social personality disorder aka sociopaths are fairly common in the psychiatric unit.  They lack empathy and remorse while being very manipulative and charming.  

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    • Author
    On 10/15/2021 at 10:56 PM, SarahMaria said:

    I work with people with no conscience/remorse on a daily basis.  Anti-social personality disorder aka sociopaths are fairly common in the psychiatric unit.  They lack empathy and remorse while being very manipulative and charming.  

    Yikes! I'm scared

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    If you haven't watched the HBO documentary about Theranos, I highly recommend it.  In her case, my impression was that she was less a true sociopath, and more so an unbelievably privileged and highly intelligent white woman who essentially had never been told "no," started her project with good intentions, and then just got in too deep and was too weak to admit she actually failed.  Which is still inexcusable.  But she didn't seem to have a lot of the signs of antisocial personality disorder.  Who knows.  

    I had a classmate in nursing school who I'm pretty sure really is a sociopath. She got kicked out shortly before graduating for filming a patient at a nursing home with dementia and laughing about her, and then got caught.  She was in one of my clinical groups before that incident, and always creeped me out.  Definitely lacked any empathy whatsoever, although also lacked charm.

    Humans are complex creatures, and healthcare professionals are in no way immune to mental illness.  

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    • Author
    51 minutes ago, LibraSunCNM said:

    Humans are complex creatures, and healthcare professionals are in no way immune to mental illness

    Definitely. I'll attest from personal experience! The recent studies about sociopaths/psychopaths (not sure the difference) are interesting in that they have found actual concrete differences in people's brains, so some argue it's not their "fault" that they don't have empathy. But I don't think anyone is suggesting people therefore shouldn't be held accountable for their actions like those who experienced psychosis/delusions.

    I did watch the documentary! I completely agree with your analysis. It will be interesting to see the verdict of the trial.

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    Yes, sociopathy is a brain disorder. Or, perhaps a normal variation in human brain activity. It is one that can put someone into criminal activity, but some sociopaths just slide through life living in a normal way for the most part, but it affects their relationships. Not every sociopath engages in illegal activity. But there is a part of their brain that is undeveloped that is the conscience portion. It's similar to people who just can't do math, or those who have trouble sinking a basket, or were born without an athletic bone in their body.

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    On 10/16/2021 at 1:56 AM, SarahMaria said:

    I work with people with no conscience/remorse on a daily basis.  Anti-social personality disorder aka sociopaths are fairly common in the psychiatric unit.  They lack empathy and remorse while being very manipulative and charming.  

    I had to re-read this to figure out you meant the patients.

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