I was just reading in todays Sunday paper that in 2 weeks new OT laws will take affect and could affect nurses. thanks GW. Well when I first read about this a while back when first proposed it mentioned LPN being exempt from the 40 hour law but this article says RN is affected. I did mention that this could really impact the health care industry if nurses not getting OT.
Well I am still a student but wondering just what is up with the new OT laws and how they will affect those of us in the profession.
Has anyone heard much on how these laws will affect nurses and exactly who is considered exempt from OT.
Found this on a google search. We americans work far more hours than many other nations with much less paid time off. dont know if it is greed or our high cost of living. http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/06/pf/work_less/
I did click on the link to nursing world and the first statement caught my eye, and how true it is. Using mandatory OT to save money. I mean, lets face it, cheaper to maintain benefits and PTO on less people than to have a full crew on the books all the time. Imagine paying health insurance, sick time and vacation time on 500 people verses 450 people. Sad thing is, it happens everywhere, not just nursing.
I thought the original labor laws were implemented to keep us from being used and abused. Am I wrong?
I was union once, AFSCME, and our mandatory overtime policy stated it was acceptable with "reasonable notice". "reasonable" was never defined. In our facility they got by with 5 minutes notice to work 16 hours and you were expected to be back 8 hours later to work your next regularly scheduled shift. WE would basically work 24 hours in a 36 hour period of time. This happened about every 2 weeks.
WE all complained but few us of had the guts to say anything to the supervisors. Once they called me with no notice and I said that would put my sitter over legal state limits and they did not care. I reminded them that our facility was run by DHS and I would work but when got home would call the local media to let them know that DHS said was ok to place 7 kids in a child endargerment situation if was a benefit to them and hung up the phone. I got called right back excusing me from my OT that day as they suddently had a volunteer. For those that dont have mandatory OT, you are so lucky.
So glad to see so many responses on this post. Keep them coming.
... everyone, no matter what your job/profession is, should be paid for OT...
Agree.
But let's remember that federal laws are passed by Congress.
Keep track of who votes for these and shoo 'em out.
____________________________
Still waiting for someone with a little time to post the law we're discussing in generalities here. We need to look at that to be accurate if we're gonna be critical. Thanks!
OMG! That's horrible. What union represents nurses in Hawaii? I was just reading over some of the contracts that CNA has in California, and all them prohibit mandatory overtime. I'm so sorry the Hawaii union lost on that one.
What happened? Did the nurses not have other places to work, or something like that? Here, if the nurses go out on strike, they can find work at many other places.
The ANA affiliate in Hawaii is the Hawaii Nurses' Assn and the Collective Bargaining Organization. Why the strike failed is likely a multi-factorial issue. I work at a federal hospital (no union for RN's), so I can't speak for the union members (someone out there will respond), but from the outsider's point of view, the public didn't support the nurses and nurses didn't support the nurses. It was shameful to my biased mind. A patient group sued the union, a nurse was physically attacked on the way to the supermarket after work, nurses from places on the Mainland were recruited by travel companies and came to scab the strike for big money. These are only examples. Striking nurses were, some of them, able to work per diem, but seven weeks without a full time pay check not only is a financial stressor, the money is never made up.
Nurses do not seem to understand the power of solidarity and employeers make sure we are consumed with the notion that we are abandoning our patients (and they are not). We will never have power if we give it up, and we will not be ready to claim our power when we scab our own. Shame on any nurse who hurts the cause of self determination for other nurses, helps to damn them to mandatory overtime, for a fistfull of dollars. Such a short term gain for a long term damage. But this is a rant for another day (and, if you are interested, is well discussed in other threads on allnurses.com).
It was shameful to my biased mind. A patient group sued the union, a nurse was physically attacked on the way to the supermarket after work, nurses from places on the Mainland were recruited by travel companies and came to scab the strike for big money. These are only examples. Striking nurses were, some of them, able to work per diem, but seven weeks without a full time pay check not only is a financial stressor, the money is never made up.
Nurses do not seem to understand the power of solidarity and employeers make sure we are consumed with the notion that we are abandoning our patients (and they are not). We will never have power if we give it up, and we will not be ready to claim our power when we scab our own. Shame on any nurse who hurts the cause of self determination for other nurses, helps to damn them to mandatory overtime, for a fistfull of dollars. Such a short term gain for a long term damage. But this is a rant for another day (and, if you are interested, is well discussed in other threads on allnurses.com).
Wow. I am so sorry to hear that. Unbelievable. Maybe you could move to California? This strike seemed to work much better. The nurses, at least, seemed to stick together on this one.
It doesn't change very much for nurses right now. The "shortages" are always cyclical. what happenes in a few years when there is a surplus of nurses?
Oh, I know the answer to this question. Surplus of nurses means layoffs. Layoffs mean surplus of nurses willing to work for low wages. Low wages equals more profits for hospital, dr.'s office, SNF.
Been there and done it. ( had to work as a MA in a dr.'s office for $10.00 an hour, because the he refused to hire me a RN and pay me $15.00 an hour)
excuse please....I have never worked anywhere where you could be forced to work overtime....doesn't this fall into the involuntary servitude catagory
who would work and not get paid what is due....this is REALLY strange
Where I work, you can be forced to work overtime. If you refuse,then it is considered patient abandonment and you can lose your license ( something that upper management gleefully reminds of us.) However, the good thing is that they have a list of about 10 requirements that they have to document, before they can "order" us to stay for overtime.
The last time I was told I "had" to stay for overtime, I insisted that management show me that had met the requirements as required. Management refused and "ordered" me to stay. I filed a complaint the next day and had a hearing with upper management. The dept. manager admitted that the managers had not met the requirements, before they ordered me to stay. I was told that the managers were "reprimanded", but was not shown any written reprimands.
One thing no one has specifically mentioned... these new overtime rules were not adopted by CONGRESS; this was all done administratively, completely within Bush's executive branch. (These aren't new overtime "laws," in other words, but are "just" regulations written by this administration's Dept. of Labor... though the rules will nonetheless basically have the weight and effect of law....)
To those of you who say it doesn't change anything, well... at many places it likely will not, at least not soon, since there's such a severe nursing shortage right now. However, it DOES get their foot in the door, and in geographic areas where the shortage is not now so severe, or wherever/whenever it eases, I doubt it would be long before employers (i.e., the mean and greedy hospital administrators, heheh) took away nurse's time and a half. My understanding is that Congress TRIED to use the power of the purse to stop the Dept. of Labor from taking away overtime from those who were already receiving it (and yes, that includes most nurses), but Congress was pressured out of its stance by the current administration.... I am not a nurse yet (I start an accel. 2nd Bac. program at the end of the month), but this all still worries me... a LOT. I find it VERY disturbing that such a fundamental change in workers' rights can be accomplished through only one branch of government's administrative processes. It almost seems evasive and backhanded... IMO, of course. So... y'all can do what you want, but I know who "I* will be voting for come November. :)
Question: What percentage of RN's are salaried, and what percentage are paid by the hour? My assumption is that the VERY LARGE majority of nurses "in the trenches" are paid hourly, no? (It seems this would almost HAVE to be the case.) And it's not until you get to the level of nurse practitioner that you'll find more of the salaried employees, correct? Anyway, thankfully, the bottom line is that anyone who is paid by the hour cannot lose their time and a half overtime . . . . Should've put that very important point in the last post. :)
(Although, this all creates some interesting incentives for hospital administrators doesn't it(???). . . hmmmmm . . . especially when considered along with the mandatory nurse/patient ratio laws that many states are (or will be) considering . . . . Should be a very interesting few years ahead for healthcare in the U.S.)
Question: What percentage of RN's are salaried, and what percentage are paid by the hour? My assumption is that the VERY LARGE majority of nurses "in the trenches" are paid hourly, no? (It seems this would almost HAVE to be the case.) And it's not until you get to the level of nurse practitioner that you'll find more of the salaried employees, correct? Anyway, thankfully, the bottom line is that anyone who is paid by the hour cannot lose their time and a half overtime . . . . Should've put that very important point in the last post. :)
(Although, this all creates some interesting incentives for hospital administrators doesn't it(???). . . hmmmmm . . . especially when considered along with the mandatory nurse/patient ratio laws that many states are (or will be) considering . . . . Should be a very interesting few years ahead for healthcare in the U.S.)
Scott
Not exactly true. I work at a federal hospital (Tripler Army Med Center in Honolulu), I am a GS worker. Like all GS workers in every position, in every facility, everywhere, my overtime rate is capped at one and a half times GS10Step1. Since my pay grade is higher than the reference grade, my overtime rate comes to just under time and a quarter. Also, the gov does not pay differentials or any other add on's for OT hours. For me, overtime pay works out 17% LOWER than my straight time pay.
FED Weekly newspaper (for federal employees) suggests that the point of Bush's OT changes is to redefine "salaried" to include some "hourly" employees. So be careful what you say cannot happen.
We would all be wise to keep up on the progress of these changes and make our opinions well known to our local reps in Washington DC. before they apply to us. If we protect the rights of all workers, we will be protected; if we wait until our personal pay check is effected, we will lose.
nontrad1964
42 Posts
Hi
Found this on a google search. We americans work far more hours than many other nations with much less paid time off. dont know if it is greed or our high cost of living. http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/06/pf/work_less/
I did click on the link to nursing world and the first statement caught my eye, and how true it is. Using mandatory OT to save money. I mean, lets face it, cheaper to maintain benefits and PTO on less people than to have a full crew on the books all the time. Imagine paying health insurance, sick time and vacation time on 500 people verses 450 people. Sad thing is, it happens everywhere, not just nursing.
I thought the original labor laws were implemented to keep us from being used and abused. Am I wrong?
I was union once, AFSCME, and our mandatory overtime policy stated it was acceptable with "reasonable notice". "reasonable" was never defined. In our facility they got by with 5 minutes notice to work 16 hours and you were expected to be back 8 hours later to work your next regularly scheduled shift. WE would basically work 24 hours in a 36 hour period of time. This happened about every 2 weeks.
WE all complained but few us of had the guts to say anything to the supervisors. Once they called me with no notice and I said that would put my sitter over legal state limits and they did not care. I reminded them that our facility was run by DHS and I would work but when got home would call the local media to let them know that DHS said was ok to place 7 kids in a child endargerment situation if was a benefit to them and hung up the phone. I got called right back excusing me from my OT that day as they suddently had a volunteer. For those that dont have mandatory OT, you are so lucky.
So glad to see so many responses on this post. Keep them coming.