New NP Grad Quitting after 1 month

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · May 8

1. I suggest you talk to an employement attorney. Sounds like a hostile work environment. First consult is free.

2. If you want to know if this place is going to badmouth you, have a friend call them to do a reference check and see what they say. It is illegal to give someone a bad reference that makes it impossible for them to get another job.

3. I strongly advise against ever quitting. If you quit, you can't claim unemployment. It is also easier to find a job when you already have a job.

4. Make sure you have some friendly references from people at that place.

good luck

londonflo · May 25

FullGlass said:

It is illegal to give someone a bad reference that makes it impossible for them to get another job.

It's not Illegal to Give a Negative Job Reference, but ... | Workforce.com

Editorial Team / Admin · May 25

FullGlass said:

It is illegal to give someone a bad reference that makes it impossible for them to get another job.

This is a common misconception. If it is factual, it is legal. However, internal policies may be more restrictive.

Quote

State And Federal Laws On Bad References

While a bad reference can severely harm an applicant's chances of getting hired, they are not usually illegal. There are no state or federal laws that prohibit an employer, a coworker, or anyone else from providing a poor reference for someone else. However, an employer may cross the line and face liability if he or she makes an untrue statement about an applicant's performance.

Source

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · May 29

Rose_Queen said:

This is a common misconception. If it is factual, it is legal. However, internal policies may be more restrictive.

Source

londonflo said:

It's not Illegal to Give a Negative Job Reference, but ... | Workforce.com

Let me rephrase this. While it may not be outright illegal to give someone a bad reference, it is actionable. This is why many organizations no longer give references and only verify dates of employment.

1. A bad reference that is a lie or misrepresentation may indeed be illegal.

2. A bad reference is actionable. That means that the person who got the bad reference could sue and then whoever gave that reference will have the pleasure of going to court to prove that their reference was the truth, as opposed to, say, retaliation.

My advice to job seekers about references:

1. Pick your references carefully. If you have a bad boss and are leaving because of that, have colleagues give you a reference.

2. Always ask the person if they are willing to be a reference.

3. Don't be shy about coaching your references. I'm not. I send them an email with my resume and in the email, list my key strengths and accomplishments.

4. Do not give someone else a bad reference - that can really come back to haunt you and it could be actionable - see above and below.

5. As previously discussed, you can have someone call and request a reference on you to see what they say. If they give you a bad reference, call the offender and scare the crap out of them. Tell them you are going to be seeing them in court.

6. Even if you are leaving on bad terms, negotiate getting a neutral or good reference. The truth is that sometimes the job is not a good fit and the worker who didn't do well there can very well do great somewhere else.

A little story: A long time ago, when I was working in high tech, I applied for a new job. Someone at the place I applied to knew one of my coworkers, who happened to be a real jerk. So the jerk, being vindictive, decided to say all sorts of untrue and nasty things about me. It so happened that the person at the place I was applying to was friends with my husband! In addition, if I got that job, I would be in a position to influence clients to purchase or not purchase products from my old job! So, somebody called the jerk's manager and reported him. His manager chewed him out royally. And yes, I got a good reference from my previous employer and got the job.

Below is a link to a very informative article about providing references:

https://www.wolterskluwer.com/en/expert-insights/balancing-requirements-and-restrictions-when-providing-employment-references#:~:text=Employment references and defamation,and lead to job rejections.

Some highlights:

"Defamation risk: Before you or anyone else in your business responds to an employment reference request, you must realize that certain types of statements about former employees may form the basis for lawsuits against you. Your primary risk is that the former employees may claim that your statements are false and damaging to their reputations and sue you for defamation.

Other legal pitfalls: Unfavorable statements also may cause you to incur legal costs in defending suits for invasion of privacy, violations of state blacklisting laws, and similar claims. You may also be legally liable if you do not disclose your knowledge of a dangerous employee.

Avoiding defamation claims

The following are examples of the types of statements that you should avoid making in giving employment references:

Accusations. Accusations that an employee engaged in illegal or improper conduct frequently form the basis for defamation lawsuits. Employers have been liable for defamation for making statements to the effect that a former employee was a thief, used illegal drugs, or made "improper" advances to women. If you fired an employee because you suspected that the employee engaged in illegal or improper conduct and you feel compelled to state the reason for the firing, then restrict the statement to your suspicion ("Employee was fired because he was suspected of taking company property," not "Employee was fired because he stole company property"). However, don't even state a suspicion unless you can support it with objective evidence.

Exaggerations. Employers can also get into trouble by exaggerating an employee's misconduct. For example, a statement that employees were fired for "gross insubordination" was defamatory when the employees' only alleged misconduct was their refusal to adjust their expense accounts.

Statements not made in good faith. The general protection extended to employers giving employment references requires that the statements be made in good faith. An employer's statements are not made in good faith if the employer knows they are untrue or if the employer makes no effort to determine if they are untrue. For example, an employer who lied in stating that an employee had admitted falsifying expense records was liable for defamation. Similarly liable was an employer whose manager made negative statements about an employee's work performance solely on the basis of rumors. The manager had never supervised, worked with, or evaluated the employee and misrepresented to the prospective employer that he had actually worked with the employee.

Statements made to improper parties. The general protection extended to employers giving employment references also requires that the statements be made only to persons having a legitimate business interest in the information disclosed. For example, you can probably tell an inquiring employer that an employee was fired because the employee was suspected of stealing business property, provided there are objective facts to support your suspicion. In contrast, expressing your suspicion to others, such as other employees or friends who have no real reasons for knowing the specific details why the employee was fired, may be defamatory.

Other risks in providing references

The main risk an employer faces in providing employment references is being sued for defamation. The following are additional claims that may arise from unfavorable employment references:

Invasion of privacy claims. Employers who disclose information about an employee's personal life open the door to being sued for invasion of privacy. In an invasion of privacy claim, employers can be held liable even if the information they disclosed is true, because truth is not a defense as it is in a defamation claim. Accordingly, you should refrain from disclosing information about an employee's financial affairs or marital problems or other private facts unless you are absolutely certain that the disclosure will serve legitimate business purposes. If you feel compelled to disclose private facts, you can limit your potential liability by securing in advance the employee's consent to the disclosure.

Equal employment opportunity claims. Employers who refuse to provide references or who provide unjustifiably negative references for former employees have been sued on the basis that their actions damage the employees' equal employment opportunities guaranteed by federal or state fair employment laws. Although such laws on their face generally protect specified classes of "employees" from discrimination, courts have been willing to extend their protection to former employees as well.

Interference with prospective employment claims. In several states, a former employee can sue an employer who gives false information to prospective employers with the intention of interfering with the former employee's prospects for employment. This type of claim is similar to, and may be filed in conjunction with, a defamation claim. It differs slightly from defamation in that it focuses primarily on the employer's intent in providing the unfavorable reference.

Blacklisting claims. In a majority of the states, an employer's "blacklisting" of a former employee is a crime. Traditionally, blacklisting laws have been applied to prevent employers from providing bad job references in retaliation for a former employee's participation in union or other protected labor activity. However, the laws generally are broad enough to cover any communications that are designed to prevent former employees from securing employment. Most blacklisting laws specifically permit employers to supply letters of recommendation or service as long as the information provided is neither false nor defamatory."

Editorial Team / Admin · May 29

FullGlass said:

2. A bad reference is actionable. That means that the person who got the bad reference could sue and then whoever gave that reference will have the pleasure of going to court to prove that their reference was the truth, as opposed to, say, retaliation.

Anything is actionable in this litigation happy society. And when the defendants whip out the employee file with all their proof, not only is that suit going to be thrown out, the plaintiff is going to end up responsible for the defendant's legal fees.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · May 29

Rose_Queen said:

Anything is actionable in this litigation happy society. And when the defendants whip out the employee file with all their proof, not only is that suit going to be thrown out, the plaintiff is going to end up responsible for the defendant's legal fees.

I do not understand why you are so determined to get the message out that it is OK to give a bad reference. It is not and carries liability risk. It also creates bad karma. I've been an executive and far too many people are abused in toxic workplaces and fired for bad reasons, including pure spite. In addition, what is the point of a bad reference? To prevent the person from ever working again? That is incredibly vindictive and frankly, petty. People make mistakes. Someone might do poorly on a job, get fired, truly learn their lesson and learn from their mistakes, and go on to be a good employee in their next job.

In addition, it is a small world in industry. The person you fired and gave a bad reference for, may end up being a nursing supervisor in their next job and might be in a position to hire you! Or maybe the fired person is good friends or related to a hiring manager in a job you apply to in the future.

Unless it is very cut and dried why an employee was fired, it is way too risky to give a bad reference. The OP paints a picture of a classic abusive and toxic workplace. Let's say the jerk gives her a bad reference and she sues. Gee, the judge is then going to see that only the jerk is writing her up, yet others are saying good things about her. Now the jerk is in big trouble and his/her employer will likely be really upset because they had to waste a lot of time and money on nonsense.

And not only that, plaintiff counsel can subpoena other records, such as records for comparable employees. Emails and text messages can also be subpoenaed. That may open up a whole can of worms. What if the jerk hates women? Or blacks? Or people over 40? Maybe the jerk just hates NPs and wants to make it so the organization won't hire NPs. And looking at reviews they they gave other people as well as other records supports that? What is the records support that the jerk created a toxic workplace? Now the employer is going to be in trouble for the actions of 1 jerk.

Even if the firing was justified, the employing organization is NOT going to be happy to be dragged into court. That costs an enormous amount of time and money. The person who caused this to happen is not going to be reaping career dividends from that.

In short, don't give a bad reference. It is not worth it. If you can't give a decent reference, just say, "Our organization has a policy not to provide references. We can only verify employment and dates of employment."

As the old saying goes, "If can't say something nice . . . "

Editorial Team / Admin · May 30

FullGlass said:

I do not understand why you are so determined to get the message out that it is OK to give a bad reference.

Facts are facts. As someone involved in hiring, I'd want to know the full picture. Our references aren't attributed to an individual; they are aggregated by a third party so I can see an average score of 4/7 on attendance but not who gave what score. You're focused on "bad" and not factualness. I am perfectly fine with facts, not malicious untruths.

Medic2RN72, BSN, RN, EMT-P · May 30

It's a "job". It's not your family or your life. There are more jobs and places of employment. You're disrespecting yourself working for a system that doesn't respect you. Find a place that will have a reciprocal relationship with you. They invest in you, you become the provider you wanted to become. Forget all that scare tactic "ohhhh bad reference mess"! Go somewhere where you are wanted!

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · May 30

Rose_Queen said:

Facts are facts. As someone involved in hiring, I'd want to know the full picture. Our references aren't attributed to an individual; they are aggregated by a third party so I can see an average score of 4/7 on attendance but not who gave what score. You're focused on "bad" and not factualness. I am perfectly fine with facts, not malicious untruths.

You are giving blanket advice based on your personal experience and how your organization provides references. This is not applicable to every circumstance.

And what are "facts?"

Here is a factually based report: Jane Doe was late reporting to work 72% of her scheduled work days, based on her clock in times.

Now that is not good. But what the "facts" don't tell us is that the reason Jane was late is that one of her children was having mental health issues making it difficult to get the child ready for school. Jane was also in a bad marriage and her husband gave her no help with the children.

Jane is fired due to excessive tardiness. So she has already lost her job and income. That's punishment enough. 6 months later, Jane has separated from her husband and secured help in the morning; her mother has agreed to get the children ready for school. Her child w/issues is now in treatment and doing better. On her next job, Jane has good attendance and no issues w/tardiness. So should Jane be penalized forever because she had issues on a previous job? No reasonable person would agree with that.

Here is another "factual" report: RN Jane clashed with a doctor and he reported her as a difficult RN to work with. OK, that could be true, but here is more information not on that "factual" report:

1. The doctor made a pass at Jane and she turned him down. The doctor was then angered and went out of his way to harass her and torment her at work, repeatedly reporting her for made up stuff

2. RN Jane also caught the doctor making serious medication errors that could have seriously injured, even killed a patient.

3. The doctor then filed even more complaints against Jane in retaliation.

4. Because the doctor made a lot of money for the hospital, Jane was fired. Subsequently that doctor was sued for malpractice because he did indeed kill a patient.

"Facts" don't always tell the complete truth.

Sandlest8295 · May 31

Get an attorney!

Pookariah · Jun 13

Geez, did we work at the same place? Very similar thing just happened to me.