In the last week, U of AZ has posted a change to their programs. They have dropped their 2nd degree BSN and have added a mepn program (master's entry to the profession of nursing (mepn) pathway). This is available to those who already have a non-nursing bachelor's degree.
I called to get more info. They said tuition would probably run between 35-45k(depends on residency status). They will start having info sessions on the new program starting at the end of this month.
Learned some interesting things at the MEPN info session. First of all UofA no longer offers an Accelerated BSN--it is the MEPN ONLY. I am concerned about this because many MSN programs (for NP, etc.) require a BSN for entry and I am not yet sure how they will handle the MEPN. It is a MS degree which is not the same as an MSN apparently. It was mentioned that you could apply to the DNP program at UA with this degree which I am not sure why anyone would do the DNP at this point which is a 4 year program at UA while it is still possible to get to be a NP without one and be grandfathered into any upcoming changes. My husband is currently doing an online MSN for FNP and it will only take 1.5 years. Anyway, I digress.
There will be 96 available spots and they are expecting 300-500 applicants. Average GPA in previous years for the ABSN has been 3.5 and the overall competition is expected to be tough. Lots of people who have gone back to school to take their prereqs and likely have a 4.0 average for just their prereqs, although their overall GPA may be considerably lower (but had to be at least a 3.0). Doesn't sounds like there will be any accounting for WHERE you took your prereqs (ie at a community college or university) as I was told that there would be no recognition for the fact that I had taken several of mine at the doctorate level while pursuing my chiropractic degree. I see their point, but at the same time think the fact that I did 9 months of actual dissections on cadavers and only got a B should be recognized when compared with an A from a community college. But such is life and my whining won't get me anywhere.
Interviews will begin in February and will be done in groups of 2-3 people at a time (which in my opinion is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard) with a faculty member. It was mentioned to make sure you don't give the same answers questions as anyone else in your group (again, dumb). Final decisions will be made in early March. There are no letters of recommendation as part of the application so don't bother sending them. Decisions will be made entirely from GPA, personal statements and the interview. They had no idea how many candidates would be interviewed.
They do not know at this time if there will be any work repayment options and may not know until after acceptance decisions are made. The woman who is currently in charge of the department is new and doesn't really seem to have any idea about how the sequence of this will play out. She basically gave the impression that you should plan on paying for the program, but maybe you will get lucky. Any contracts that are available will be for 3 years, not 2 as it has been in the past.
As for cost, the program will be 4 semesters (summer, fall, winter, spring, summer) and will follow the established graduate tuition. Right now that is roughly $7100 per semester. She did say that this has only been approved through the spring/summer semester and that she anticipates it will likely increase by 6-10% for the following year. My impression is that due to budget issue the tuition may steadily increase per semester for the duration of the program--so probably costing closer to $35k when all is said and done.
One things I was not happy about it is your clinical hours are not set up for you. For some courses you will be expected to go into the community and find your own hosts at local hospitals. They mentioned that students have never had problems finding these hours in the past because the UofA program has such a good reputation. I am really disappointed by this--considering how intense the program is, how much it costs and all the connections UofA has in the community I feel it should be their responsibility to arrange clinicals. Not sure how this is handled in other programs and maybe this is standard but I doubt it.
Regardless of everything I have learned so far I am still planning on applying. There really aren't many other options for obtaining and RN in Tucson right now as PCC has a wait list for their associate nursing degree until 2013. I am curious if I could just transfer into the UA BSN program--has anyone tried to do that??
"One things I was not happy about it is your clinical hours are not set up for you. For some courses you will be expected to go into the community and find your own hosts at local hospitals. They mentioned that students have never had problems finding these hours in the past because the UofA program has such a good reputation."
This is fascinating and suggests one of the following, or a combination of several:
-The UofA College of Nursing no longer has the resources (budget and manpower) to secure enough clinical hours for the MEPN students, and that all spaces are filled by the traditional BSN student population.
-The UofA College of Nursing may not have such the stellar reputation with in the Southern Arizona community as they themselves believe....
-The UofA College of Nursing has burned its bridges with a number of community institutions that very few health care organizations want to enter into agreements leading to student clinical experiences.
I think it is ridiculous that MEPN students should have to pay graduate tuition and then source their own clinical experiences. What a headache. You know, for all their self declared "excellence," "prominence," and "reputation," the UofA college of Nursing ought to take a hard look in the mirror.
The UofA CON is broke. One of the primary reasons for advancing the Accelerated BSN into a MEPN is simply to charge more for the same program, even though the degree quality and curriculum is essentially the same.
Before deciding to apply/interview to become a MEPN guineau pig, you ought to ask the UofA CON to provide a list of current students in the last class of the Accelerated BSN program as references. You will learn a ton about the internal strife, dysfunction, and mediocrity that will cost you more than $7,000 per semester.
As a graduate of the ABSN I can second all that giardiafan is saying. Also, I'm a Tucson native and have heard for many years that quite a few unit managers and doctors prefer to hire and work with RNs from Pima than UA, mainly due to their clinical experience. It's that experience that allows for you to make connections for futures jobs and lets you decide what kind of nursing you like best. The UA is still riding on a reputation of old, which is too bad. I personally feel that the nursing profession as a whole needs to phase out the ADN for BSN for all entry level nursing education. (opps side note!)
I would be very cautious before committing to this program. Many of the Tucson area hospitals are not hiring new grads anymore. They are on hiring freezes and layoffs. When I went into school 4 years ago, hospitals were offering sign on bonuses, moving expenses and giving raises, now we're not even getting cost of living increases! And my insurance went up, again. Of course this may change (hopefully) in the next few years, but with AZ cutting AHCCCS funding to hospitals, there are less people in the hospitals, reinbursements are down and hospitals are cutting everywhere they can to keep the adminstrators happy and making $$.
I'm very disappointed to hear they are trying to make the student set up their own experience. Unless you know someone in the field or have connections you are at a great disadvantage. The hospital I work at, everyday we have students and its not unusual for a RN to have 2 students at a time with them. RNs don't get paid for this extra work and quite a few on my unit refuse to take students. You are competing with NAU, GCU, Pima, and UA traditional program students and there is just not enough clinical time or spaces for all of these students. I don't know why they can't set this up. They've been doing it for the ABSN students. Like this is different?!
FYI-When I applied to the ABSN I also applied to the traditional program. It was my second time applying and I was applying everywhere (NAU, GCU Pima). I received a call from the ladies in the office saying that "I can't apply to them both, it's one or the other". Well, I called the Dean, and you CAN apply to them both as there is nothing to say that you can't. The difference is of course that it is slower paced, allows you for more study time and a life outside of school. And you WILL be placed for clinicals. You might be the oldest, most life experienced student in your class, but its still a BSN!
Ah what an interesting development. When I asked at the info session if students had had trouble finding their own clinical hours we were told that they had not in the past. Based on what I am reading here it sounds like this is hasn't been done in the past... so really they have no basis for their answer. I am extremely concerned about this. My husband is in NP school (through Samford, not UA) and has to find his own internships and it has not been a pleasant experience.
I am still going to apply, probably to the MEPN and the BSN. My first choice was to go to PIMA but they are currently backed up for admission till 2013 and I really don't want to wait that long. Does anyone know of any other options here in Tucson. I can't seem to find any. Phoenix has some possibilities, but the only accelerated program is at GCU and that program seems pretty expensive as well. I know ASU doesn't have an accelerated program and I just straight up cannot afford the NAU option.
Maybe they were talking about the MSN or doctoral student when it comes to clinical placement? Were they specific at all? There would have been no time for us to seek out our own placement what with the class lectures and homework that was crammed into the 14 months. NAU is less than UA for a BSN and for MSN. GCU is expensive because it's a private school. Pima goes through their list pretty quickly as a girl I work with was on for 2012 and they called her, moved her up the spring 2010. She said, people cancel, flunk out all the time.
I'm sure someone has said this already but this isn't a "new" program. It's their 2nd degree BSN program just now it costs 10K more and you get an MSN instead of BSN. Before you get excited, the MSN doesn't mean anything. You still start out at a hospital at the same point as an ADN. If you want to be an advance practice nurse you still have to do another program after. Check out U of A's BSN to DNP program and then look at the MSN to DNP program. The courses needed are exactly the same. I suppose if you get the MSN and then find somewhere to get an educator certificate you could teach at the CC level after a little RN experience. This was done because the hospital sponsorships went away and they need people to be able to pay for their program. You can't get financial aid for a 2nd Bachelor's but you can for a master's.
I should have specified. MANY people can not get financial aid for 2nd BA degrees because there is a lifetime max for undergrad financial aid. You can almost always get loans but the federal programs have limits. You are not allowed to just borrow and borrow and borrow.
(subsidized and unsubsidized)Maximum SubsidizedDependent undergraduate$31,000$23,000Independent undergraduate$57,500$23,000Graduate/Professional$138,500$65,500Medical$224,000$65,500
The graduate debt limit includes loans received for undergraduate study.
If you reach your lifetime loan limit, you cannot receive any more of that type of loan. If you exceed your limit, aid already disbursed will be billed back. You will have to find alternate ways to finance your education. Therefore it is to your advantage to borrow only what you need for educational expenses, and to keep track of your cumulative debt. OFA advisors are happy to work with you to find ways to minimize your borrowing.
Maybe they were talking about the MSN or doctoral student when it comes to clinical placement? Were they specific at all? There would have been no time for us to seek out our own placement what with the class lectures and homework that was crammed into the 14 months. NAU is less than UA for a BSN and for MSN. GCU is expensive because it's a private school. Pima goes through their list pretty quickly as a girl I work with was on for 2012 and they called her, moved her up the spring 2010. She said, people cancel, flunk out all the time.
So i called the school today and from what i understand clinicals are arranged by the program. I wonder why they would say otherwise at the info session. I'm sooo confused
So does anyone know if this program qualifies as an actual MSN that would grant you entry into a Post-Master's NP Certificate program, or would you have to go get a seperate MSN afterwards before getting into an NP program???
It is not an MSN. I posted several months back that this program appears kind of like a scam to me, but that is up to the applicant to decipher. It personally was not any thing I was interested in, as I wish to pursue education past the bachelor level of nursing. To do nurse practitioner at ASU for example, you must have a BSN. You will not have a BSN, you will have this MS degree. I do not know how this translates, but what I do know is it isn't worth the 35K risk to me to find out. I will do an accelerated program for BSN and take the traditional "safe" route to graduate nursing education.
The entire application process at U of A seems like one enormous headache...I didn't feel dealing with the migraine---as the process elsewhere is far more organized with many fewer "what-ifs".
I completely agree with the previous post by abvincent1. The 'new' MEPN degree is nothing more than the previous Accelerated BSN program with a few more academic units inserted into specific courses. The only major difference is that there is now an actual independent pharmacology course. In previous years, the UofA CON attempted to integrate pharmacology into every other coursework. Then the admin+instructors told students we were responsible for learning pharma, although most teachers didn't bother to teach it.
Anyways, the MEPN is a hollow grad degree that takes you to the same place that the BSN does: the RN license. The UofA only transitioned to a grad program for two reasons:
1) they can charge more tuition and hence, receive more revenue.
2) accelerated BSN students were disappointed to earn just another bachelor's degree after entering the program with one. Unfortunately, the quality of coursework is no better. The first MEPN class will be subjected to the same amateurish, Powerpoint driven year of lectures and ultimate boredom that accelerated BSN students were.
chirorach
9 Posts
Learned some interesting things at the MEPN info session. First of all UofA no longer offers an Accelerated BSN--it is the MEPN ONLY. I am concerned about this because many MSN programs (for NP, etc.) require a BSN for entry and I am not yet sure how they will handle the MEPN. It is a MS degree which is not the same as an MSN apparently. It was mentioned that you could apply to the DNP program at UA with this degree which I am not sure why anyone would do the DNP at this point which is a 4 year program at UA while it is still possible to get to be a NP without one and be grandfathered into any upcoming changes. My husband is currently doing an online MSN for FNP and it will only take 1.5 years. Anyway, I digress.
There will be 96 available spots and they are expecting 300-500 applicants. Average GPA in previous years for the ABSN has been 3.5 and the overall competition is expected to be tough. Lots of people who have gone back to school to take their prereqs and likely have a 4.0 average for just their prereqs, although their overall GPA may be considerably lower (but had to be at least a 3.0). Doesn't sounds like there will be any accounting for WHERE you took your prereqs (ie at a community college or university) as I was told that there would be no recognition for the fact that I had taken several of mine at the doctorate level while pursuing my chiropractic degree. I see their point, but at the same time think the fact that I did 9 months of actual dissections on cadavers and only got a B should be recognized when compared with an A from a community college. But such is life and my whining won't get me anywhere.
Interviews will begin in February and will be done in groups of 2-3 people at a time (which in my opinion is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard) with a faculty member. It was mentioned to make sure you don't give the same answers questions as anyone else in your group (again, dumb). Final decisions will be made in early March. There are no letters of recommendation as part of the application so don't bother sending them. Decisions will be made entirely from GPA, personal statements and the interview. They had no idea how many candidates would be interviewed.
They do not know at this time if there will be any work repayment options and may not know until after acceptance decisions are made. The woman who is currently in charge of the department is new and doesn't really seem to have any idea about how the sequence of this will play out. She basically gave the impression that you should plan on paying for the program, but maybe you will get lucky. Any contracts that are available will be for 3 years, not 2 as it has been in the past.
As for cost, the program will be 4 semesters (summer, fall, winter, spring, summer) and will follow the established graduate tuition. Right now that is roughly $7100 per semester. She did say that this has only been approved through the spring/summer semester and that she anticipates it will likely increase by 6-10% for the following year. My impression is that due to budget issue the tuition may steadily increase per semester for the duration of the program--so probably costing closer to $35k when all is said and done.
One things I was not happy about it is your clinical hours are not set up for you. For some courses you will be expected to go into the community and find your own hosts at local hospitals. They mentioned that students have never had problems finding these hours in the past because the UofA program has such a good reputation. I am really disappointed by this--considering how intense the program is, how much it costs and all the connections UofA has in the community I feel it should be their responsibility to arrange clinicals. Not sure how this is handled in other programs and maybe this is standard but I doubt it.
Regardless of everything I have learned so far I am still planning on applying. There really aren't many other options for obtaining and RN in Tucson right now as PCC has a wait list for their associate nursing degree until 2013. I am curious if I could just transfer into the UA BSN program--has anyone tried to do that??