New co-worker...my ex patient

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · May 7, 2018

I'm a former patient now often working with nurses who used to look after me in the mental health unit.

That said, we are talking about a gap of over 14 years.

And I work very hard to ensure I maintain appropriate boundaries with my patients.

A little over a year would be very wierd IMO

TriciaJ, RN · May 7, 2018

Hold on a sec ... I must be under a misunderstanding .... I thought most psych nurses were ex-patients, the old "takes one to know one" thing? All this time that's not true?

No. Not remotely true. Heck, I even know childless L&D nurses. Surgeons who still have all their own body parts. Etc. Go figure.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · May 7, 2018

Only a year ago? Does your facility have a protocol for how long a patient has to be sober and not a patient before they can work there? Our protocol is a pt has to be sober and have not been a patient for 3 years before they can work here. I've had a previous client work with me but she was 3 years sober and a great open person. She was going to be my main support staff, so we had to have a conversation about it to make sure we both felt comfortable. She had great insight and I ended up including her in the groups I ran and she contributed a great deal with the groups. Of course, I'm not the kind of person to ignore things and I want to know about the situation and the feelings involved, including looking for strategies to make everyone comfortable BEFORE it becomes and actual situation. Maybe it's the psych nurse in me. A year though doesn't sound like long enough to me.

Especially if he is already doing inappropriate things, like getting into other persons' personal or even intimate space and then asking them if it makes them uncomfortable.\

If you have cameras, OP, at your job, people can try to steer him to be on camera when he pulls this stuff.

From what you have said, I think there is trouble lurking. I hope it comes sooner rather than later and that no one gets hurt by this still-sick man.

I think your boss is an idiot to have hired him.

Don't give any more personal information about your workplace or him. There is already enough/too much on here.

People need to be sure they don't find themselves alone near the restroom or other more or less secluded spot with him.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · May 7, 2018

Several female staff (nurses and MHCs) have already told me in confidence he makes them uncomfortable and has poor boundaries. He'll purposefully place himself in extremely close proximity and ask things such as, "does this make you uncomfortable?" It's all very ridiculous. Unit manager (he'll be fired or leave within a few months) responded to one complaint by promoting an unsafe sexist/blame game culture by telling that staff, "you have to tell him, men don't get it". My work place is dysfunctional at best. I'm also the only one willing to go to HR but I haven't witnessed my coworkers experiences but trust them completely.

What do they say to him in reply? How about "Yes it does and I will report you to the police, HR, etc. if you keep sexually harassing me". "Yes, it does, and you need to quit it if you don't want me to report you".

Is the UM going to be fired or are you quoting the UM regarding this guy?

There is nothing wrong with telling the truth clearly and directly to someone who is harassing you. In other words, set the offender straight. And warn that person that you find his behavior to be harassment and intimidation. This can be done in a collegial way, rather than a confrontational, angry way.

Don't trust anyone completely.

I don't think you should go to HR alone. HR is not your friend. HR protects the employer, not the employee. Until other people, like those whose space is being violated, get up the courage to also go to HR, I think you would be setting yourself up to get fired/blackballed for this sick person's sickness. But you have to decide for yourself how much you are willing to "lead the way". Good luck on this.

I think this is a serial rapist or serial killer in the making. Move over Bundy, Dahmer, et al.

Talk to a couple of detectives for their opinions without mentioning the would-be perp's name.

Watch him very carefully. Don't go to your car alone.

BehavioralRN · May 7, 2018

Yeah. I just listen. Working at this place for over 3 years now the amount of dysfunction belongs in a lifetime series. It is a gilded cage situation though for many of us. I am passionate about my patients but he was Just my patient a year ago at this same building. I think sobriety is 6 months here per policy which is ridiculous...but that's the detox nurse in me still speaking. I've seen tons of year+ relapses. Basically everyone is letting him act inappropriate because they don't want to be accused of targeting him. It's just going to blow up in our faces at some point and just need to wait for it to happen.

Kittenx · May 8, 2018

I'm a psychiatric nurse that is a current patient. I spent the summer in a different hospital in a different city.

I would not want to work at that hospital because I had very bad experiences with the staff there; very archaic thinking, we didn't get along and there was inappropriate behaviour to keep it short and sweet. Quite frankly, I should of reported a nurse for his behaviour towards me. But this doesn't particularly matter other than to let you know of my personal bias. With that being said I think what I am going to say next is very fair, although a bit blunt.

It seems like you are very uncomfortable with the situation and his presence is creating a lot of discourse with the staff. I can't say that is a very supportive or accepting environment for him and that this is at heart a form of discrimination. You didn't outright say it, but its plain as day that the staff there do not think he should be working there. What you're telling us is gossip under the guise of concern. The staff there are being predictive. They are looking for things and they are going to find small things. Have you guys failed him before he has had a real opportunity to transition and find his way in his job?

In mental health there is a level of intimacy and a fine balance between that intimacy and boundaries. One might see a nurse being friendly with a patient and state that there are boundary issues. Could that be what is happening here? If I saw a new staff member have boundary issues with a client, I would talk to them about it and support them. I think most nurses at some point run into boundary issues with a client and have to modify their approach to fix the issue. We don't know the situation and obviously there are constraints to each situation. One would not sit idly by while a patient is groomed or sexually abused by a provider.

With the part of invading co-workers personal space, I imagine he is under the impression that he is not making someone uncomfortable, nor is he intending to. Or perhaps he is trying to fit in with some humour and missed the mark. Its hard to say because I wasn't there. Perhaps he is intentionally hitting on this person and is acting inappropriately. But perhaps not. You have to remember there are two sides to every story and then there is the truth. What was the social context of the situation. I think most people can take snapshots of each others behaviour and find impropriety if we ignore the context.

On his end, of course there will be some adjustment issues and growing pains. This is because he had issues in the not so recent past, he is not comfortable with his co-workers and he is starting a new job. He will be experiencing a lot of emotions and memories as he works with clients as a provider. But at the core of his decision to work there, he wants to help. He wouldn't have put himself into such an uncomfortable situation otherwise. If given the opportunity, perhaps he won't be smuggling in contraband like some have commented- rather he will be an excellent care provider as someone who has lived experience and compassion for sufferers..

I don't know about you, but when I started any jobs, my co-workers were a incredible source of help and support. They taught me so much and I was quite thankful for them. I would encourage you to treat him like you would any co-worker that is starting a new job. Give them pointers, be friendly and supportive. Most of us know we have to be mindful of gossip at work and take things with a grain of salt sometimes. If that is the case, model supportive behavior to your peers. Take the high road.

pixierose, BSN, RN · May 9, 2018

Hold on a sec ... I must be under a misunderstanding .... I thought most psych nurses were ex-patients, the old "takes one to know one" thing? All this time that's not true?

Oh, for heavens sake...

Cardiac nurse = must have heart issues

NICU nurse = must have been a 28 weeker

L&D nurse = must have children

Sure, some might be patients. Most aren't.

OP, I'd be uncomfortable too. Not so much the former patient but the whole space issue. The former patient issue is just icing on the cake with the potential of targeting. Just document document document.

TriciaJ, RN · May 11, 2018

Sometimes in our zeal to "give someone a chance" we actually set them up to fail. I hope that isn't the case in your workplace, OP. I hope that your coworker will get over his discomfort and his boundary issues. That fact that he sheepishly slinks away when he sees you isn't a good sign. You might approach him and tell him you hope the job works out for him and wish him well. You might also do him the favour of letting him know when he's crossed a boundary.

Meanwhile, document anything egregious and hope you can shred it at some point because it isn't needed. This whole situation does not bode well, but one can always be pleasantly surprised.