New back-to-school worry: Unvaccinated classmates

[wtbcrna]

"A growing number of children aren't getting required vaccinations for non-medical reasons. What will this new reality bring this school year?

As parents send their children back to school, some are grappling with a new worry: whether their children's classmates have received all their vaccinations.

An outbreak of measles in Texas this week shows why their concern is not without reason. Twenty-one people linked to a megachurch and its congregation have contracted the highly contagious disease, and the case has put a spotlight on falling vaccination rates in the U.S.

Measles was eradicated in the U.S. as of 2000, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, but outbreaks like the one in Texas are increasing, as is the percentage of parents choosing not to immunize their children, which has seen an uptick in recent years. Usually, the CDC expects to see 60 cases of measles per year, but there have been 135 cases of measles so far in 2013, and in 2011, more than 220 people were diagnosed with the disease.

This latest outbreak follows a rash of recent measles cases among New York's Orthodox Jewish population and an outbreak in San Diego in 2008."

http://news.msn.com/science-technology/new-back-to-school-worry-unvaccinated-classmates

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Short of an LD50 dose of aluminum being in vaccines I could care less the amount of micrograms in them since infants regularly ingest milligrams of aluminum on a daily basis. I was never trying to debate the actual amount of micrograms of aluminum in vaccines.

If you are trying to say that you are using unbiased factual information to go against EBP and the professional recommendations of two physician societies the CDC and WHO to use an alternate vaccine schedule, downplaying the need for Flu vaccines, and making vague unproven relationships between auto-immune diseases and vaccines then I for one want to see the peer-reviewed scientific evidence. Otherwise it isn't a debate at all it is nothing more than innuendos against vaccines.

I don't want to debate...... the are of course no peer reviewed articles on my personal curiosity of vaccines and auto-immune diseases....although I am aware it is being studied by an immunologist at the Cleveland Clinic as I am a patient.

I am not playing down flu vaccines......just voicing a personal opinion....I DON"T LIKE THEM.....just because infants ingest MILLIGRAMS of aluminum every day doesn't make it right......just like paint used to contain LEAD....just because it is there doesn't mean it should stay there. DES (Diethylstilbestrol) was ok for pregnant women ....I am a DES daughter..so I have a few trust issues..http://www.cdc.gov/des/consumers/about/

Thalidomide was ok for nausea/vomiting during pregnancy....while it is a good drug for certain populations.......we all know how that turned out.http://scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/content/articles/2009/research-digest/thalidomide/title-tba

I think it is dialog we need to have.....that 's all.

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

I don't want to debate...... the are of course no peer reviewed articles on my personal curiosity of vaccines and auto-immune diseases....although I am aware it is being studied by an immunologist at the Cleveland Clinic as I am a patient.

I am not playing down flu vaccines......just voicing a personal opinion....I DON"T LIKE THEM.....just because infants ingest MILLIGRAMS of aluminum every day doesn't make it right......just like paint used to contain LEAD....just because it is there doesn't mean it should stay there. DES (Diethylstilbestrol) was ok for pregnant women ....I am a DES daughter..so I have a few trust issues..About DES

Thalidomide was ok for nausea/vomiting during pregnancy....while it is a good drug for certain populations.......we all know how that turned out.The Thalidomide Tragedy: Lessons for Drug Safety and Regulation | Science in Society I think it is dialog we need to have.....that 's all.

You stated you were getting involved in the debate but "didn't like to". To me that signifies you are trying to debate something just as much as expressing a non-viable non referenced point of view about vaccines on this thread. Aluminum is the most common metal on earth it has been well studied, and it would be virtually impossible to remove aluminum from our diets.Aluminium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Opioins do not matter in science. Scientific evidence matters and obviously you have none to share/reference on vaccines. As evidenced by the original article on here and CDC statistics vaccine preventable outbreaks are becoming more common in the United States largely due to non-vaccinated individuals that base their opinions not on scientific facts but Internet hearsay or incidental findings.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

.......never mind

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

.......never mind

Yes you do by the way., if you want to know about something particular then start a thread and point my attention to it.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

A bleeding disorder in babies that is so rare that it typically affects fewer than one in 100,000 newborns is becoming more common in Tennessee because parents are refusing vitamin K injections at birth, according to pediatric specialists.

wbt, you do realize that statement makes no sense, yes? either they have prob or not, vit K supplementation may prevent its expression, but its absence can't cause disorder.

What the article seems to be exposing is a vitamin def that should have been addressed prenatally.

all + all not a very well written piece.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Yes you do by the way., if you want to know about something particular then start a thread and point my attention to it.

no thanks...

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

A bleeding disorder in babies that is so rare that it typically affects fewer than one in 100,000 newborns is becoming more common in Tennessee because parents are refusing vitamin K injections at birth, according to pediatric specialists.

wbt, you do realize that statement makes no sense, yes? either they have prob or not, vit K supplementation may prevent its expression, but its absence can't cause disorder.

What the article seems to be exposing is a vitamin def that should have been addressed prenatally.

all + all not a very well written piece.

Hmm, I am not following your post very well. Can you provide a link or an article? I saw the probabilities as 1:100,000 up to 5:100,000 for delayed onset of newborn hemorrhage related to Vit K deficiency. The cause of Vit K deficiency could be endogenous or exogenous with endogenous being more rare according to the original article I referenced.

[h=3]"Frequency[/h][h=4]United States[/h]

In the United States, routine intramuscular administration of vitamin K immediately after birth has made vitamin K deficiency bleeding an uncommon occurrence. The frequency of vitamin K deficiency bleeding varies from 0.25-1.7% in the first week of life in infants not receiving vitamin K prophylaxis. Late vitamin K deficiency bleeding (2-12 wk after birth) appears to be reduced or prevented with parenteral administration of vitamin K at birth.

[h=4]International[/h]

The frequency of vitamin K deficiency bleeding in countries outside the United States varies with the use of vitamin K prophylaxis, the efficacy of prophylaxis programs, frequency of breastfeeding, and the vitamin K content of locally available formulas.Late vitamin K deficiency bleeding has fallen from 4.4-7.2 cases per 100,000 births to 1.4-6.4 cases per 100,000 births in reports from Asia and Europe after regimens for prophylaxis were instituted.

^{[18, 19, 20]}

[h=3]Mortality/Morbidity[/h]

Intracranial hemorrhage is uncommon in classic vitamin K deficiency bleeding but can be observed in more than 50% of infants with late-onset vitamin K deficiency bleeding. Intracranial hemorrhage is responsible for nearly all mortality and long-term sequelae due to vitamin K deficiency bleeding."

Medscape: Medscape Access

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

no thanks...

lol....no worries.

[TexRN, BSN, RN]

So I talked with my friend who majored in organic chemistry and this is what she had to say about the safety of aluminum in vaccines. I'm not posting to argue, I appreciate all of what you have to say on the matter. So if you have time, please look this over.

"Well aluminum is one the most difficult metals to refine and is never fully destroyed which is why almost 100% of the AL in the US has been recycled and reused. Since it is a very strong metal (It has one of the heaviest masses I think its mass is 13 but I could be wrong since its been a while) when you alter it your alteration still contains the raw components which is why is does build up in the system even when in the form of processed Aluminum Salts- it does so with animals and does so in people. Does it mean it is safe to consume? No. There are TONS of natural elements that are very dangerous- natural does not always mean safe. That is why there are warnings and that is why high levels are found in the brains of Alzheimer's patients. That is why high levels are found on the bones of patients who have died of bone cancer- it gets in your system, it builds up, and it stays there. You cook your food in foil, use deodorant with parabans in it, have it injected over and over via vaccines throughout your life and even take prescription medication that contains Aluminum salts- all of this adds up to a ton of Al in your system. So lets compare natural aluminum which still can cause damage to our system verses Aluminum Salts which are man made... Man made is usually not as good as nature right? When they process the Al to make the Al salts which are less potent and are supposed to be able to dissolve better,they are still not able to make it safe. Aluminum cannot be fully refined because it is such a strong element so they never get those raw components out of their solution that make it toxic. All AL is a known toxin- that is a fact. a small dose of Al2(SO4)3 for us, is a huge dose for a child. The only group of scientists who claim Aluminum Salts exit the body any faster than raw Al are working for the government. The research simply does not support their claim- not even in the slightest. You just look at the molecular formula for Al Salts... Al2(SO4)3. Sulfur is in that formula. Sulfur. Sulfur produces a dangerous gas and called I *think* Hydrogen Sulfide Gas which is very harmful so not only are you putting a processed Al in your body but you are also mixing that with Sulfur- pretty decent doses of it too. It just is not safe any way you slice it nor is it the same thing as naturally occurring Al which is still not safe to be injecting much less injecting. There are a loonnnng list of naturally occurring elements that are dangerous. Just because Aluminum and Mercury do occur in nature in no way makes them safe."

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

So I talked with my friend who majored in organic chemistry and this is what she had to say about the safety of aluminum in vaccines. I'm not posting to argue, I appreciate all of what you have to say on the matter. So if you have time, please look this over.

"Well aluminum is one the most difficult metals to refine and is never fully destroyed which is why almost 100% of the AL in the US has been recycled and reused. Since it is a very strong metal (It has one of the heaviest masses I think its mass is 13 but I could be wrong since its been a while) when you alter it your alteration still contains the raw components which is why is does build up in the system even when in the form of processed Aluminum Salts- it does so with animals and does so in people. Does it mean it is safe to consume? No. There are TONS of natural elements that are very dangerous- natural does not always mean safe. That is why there are warnings and that is why high levels are found in the brains of Alzheimer's patients. That is why high levels are found on the bones of patients who have died of bone cancer- it gets in your system, it builds up, and it stays there. You cook your food in foil, use deodorant with parabans in it, have it injected over and over via vaccines throughout your life and even take prescription medication that contains Aluminum salts- all of this adds up to a ton of Al in your system. So lets compare natural aluminum which still can cause damage to our system verses Aluminum Salts which are man made... Man made is usually not as good as nature right? When they process the Al to make the Al salts which are less potent and are supposed to be able to dissolve better,they are still not able to make it safe. Aluminum cannot be fully refined because it is such a strong element so they never get those raw components out of their solution that make it toxic. All AL is a known toxin- that is a fact. a small dose of Al2(SO4)3 for us, is a huge dose for a child. The only group of scientists who claim Aluminum Salts exit the body any faster than raw Al are working for the government. The research simply does not support their claim- not even in the slightest. You just look at the molecular formula for Al Salts... Al2(SO4)3. Sulfur is in that formula. Sulfur. Sulfur produces a dangerous gas and called I *think* Hydrogen Sulfide Gas which is very harmful so not only are you putting a processed Al in your body but you are also mixing that with Sulfur- pretty decent doses of it too. It just is not safe any way you slice it nor is it the same thing as naturally occurring Al which is still not safe to be injecting much less injecting. There are a loonnnng list of naturally occurring elements that are dangerous. Just because Aluminum and Mercury do occur in nature in no way makes them safe."

That is interesting, but in no way provides any scientific evidence. This is why we do randomized controlled trials and post-marketing surveillance to monitor for adverse reactions.

Here is some interesting peer-reviewed scientific articles I found on pubmed. It does make for some interesting reading, but the levels are still significantly over the amount of Al in vaccines that it isn't even worth the comparison. Infants are still getting more Al in their diets in a normal week than they would ever get from all the vaccines in their entire lifetime.

Total allowable concentrations of monomeric... [Crit Rev Toxicol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Home - PubMed - NCBI

[TexRN, BSN, RN]

But would the Al in food be easier to metabolize versus the man made Al in vaccines? It is proof enough for me to say that vaccines aren't safe. Effective yes, in some cases the pros outweigh the cons. I would think that you would want to minimalize exposure to these things, by breastfeeding, and staying away from all that stuff if you could help it.

I really don't know how much more evidence you need.

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

But would the Al in food be easier to metabolize versus the man made Al in vaccines? It is proof enough for me to say that vaccines aren't safe. Effective yes, in some cases the pros outweigh the cons. I would think that you would want to minimalize exposure to these things, by breastfeeding, and staying away from all that stuff if you could help it.

There is no way to stay away from aluminum. Aluminum is in water. It's in the food we eat. Aluminum is in all of us, and it is in breast milk too.

http://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/aluminum.pdf