Needing an honest answer

[EbonyBorn2Succeed]

As nurses why do you guys think that medications only treat the symptoms of a disease instead of curing the disease? Is it because no one has come up any cures yet? () Or do you guys think it's a conspiracy?

I for one think it's a conspiracy and that's what I'm writing a paper on. Just wanted to know how you all felt. Thanks.

Side note: OMG just noticed I put "and" instead of "an" in my title. Disregard Please!

[SA2009]

So you are saying a US doctor will omit advice about diet and stress reduction in diseases that are exacerbated by stress or improper diet because he only wants to use prescription drugs? I think you should change doctors if that was the case because you happened to get a very poor sampling of US doctors. Your impressions are not accurate. In fact, I would go so far as to say that most physicians here go to lifestyle advice before prescribing drugs. A small fraction of people actually take that advice, though.

Oh, US doctors do give you advice about diet and lifestyle modification, but the push is not as strong as in other countries. Germany was just an example because I know a little on how the system works there. It surprised me, for example, to experience that my primary MD was reluctant to prescribe Pentasa Xtend because she (her practice) has to pay part of it. She asked me to get the prescription from the GI, because, I guess, a specialist gets certain "allowances" for specific meds from the insurance. Now, for Pentasa in the US my copay is about $200 for a 3 month supply, in Germany was $30. Now, you must remember that they do have universal health insurance, so the healthcare system in general is different.

I have to say that I don't like to compare one country to the other because there are different cultural playing a role and each country has their own "reality," i.e. in some countries, the patient is looking for the quick fix of getting just rid of the symptoms and they avoid diagnostic studies etc; in other countries, patient's look at the MD at the great healer and do whatever they are told without questioning, etc.

Having said that, when it comes to the question of "conspiracy in regards to meds in the US," I do think that the American people are taken for a ride in regards to the cost. Again, someone is taking a big chunk from the top and people with longterm conditions, i.e. MS, cancer, etc. are footing the bill, and I hate to see that. You know the pharma industry is as any other industry and is in the business to make a profit. Do you remember seeing the bonuses of the bank execs over the past few years? Do you think they look much different in the pharma industry? It's the dynamics of the system, which includes everyone from the patient, who accepts the cost (not voluntarily) to the pharma industry who exploits the patient's disease and illness.

Again, I think we can look at other countries, also Canada, England, New Zealand or Skandinavia to see what model they have and evaluate if it could be incorporated in the American way of life.

[nursel56]

It doesn't surprise me at all that pharm company executives are paid huge bonusses, which would be normal for any CEO of a large corporation. The stockholders never freak out about bonusses when they are making money, only when the bonusses are paid to those same guys who just ran the economy into the ground and came hat in hand to the taxpayers to rescue their banks when their sleaze-ball tactics finally caught up with them.

The way profit/loss is accounted for is not the same as most other businesses because of the cost of R & D. I think it bites to be charged $200 for an asthma inhaler, too. But then, the pharm companies assume a lot of risk when they spend money on developing a drug that never makes it out of the lab. The "big chunk off the top" is supposed to allow the company to recoup part of the loss they take on other drugs and the cost of bringing the new one to the market.

Most people look at profit/loss in pharm companies seem to believe that insane markups are across the board when it's only their newest drug(s) that are priced that way. Most of the old workhorse drugs from the same company are cheap. Many are still fine to treat long-term chronic illnesses. If a new drug is formulated that can actually cure or cause significant improvement in one of those illnesses I don't believe the chemists would be huddling in the corner trying to keep the secret, and that's the original claim made by the OP.

So, do the companies charge a fair price or are they lining their pockets and exploiting people. The answer might lie in a couple of facts we do know. First, most of the cost is footed by the insurance companies and the government, not by the patient even if they do have a high deductible. Insurance companies like to make a profit, too. If a drug is insanely expensive, the insurance company will balk at paying it and negotiate it. There isn't usually a lot of wiggle room in the price. Reading between the lines, I think it can be assumed that something very close to what the pharm company wants to charge- the insurance company agrees it is worth and they have many excellent people who analyze that stuff.

The other thing to think about is that the government essentially allows the pharm company a monopoly for a designated period of time. The gov. normally isn't keen on allowing one company to corner the market, therefore I will assume there is a reason that happens, and it's probably because they too recognize the necessity of letting the drug companies recoup some of the costs incurred by bringing it to market.

[GHGoonette, BSN, RN]

As I've already pointed out, the OP has long since left the discussion, and everyone is left debating it. It fascinated me at the start that she is tackling the question from the "alternative medicine" point of view.

Here's an interesting thing I've noticed about alternative medicine. The moment a new herb or other "natural product" is proclaimed by scientists as curing infertility, or obesity, or cancer, or galloping gingivitis in blue-orificed flies, dozens of homeopathic companies are on the bandwagon with their magical "medicinal compound, most efficacious in every way." They make a few millions or billions off the product, despite the fact that after further investigation, scientists find that the original "natural product" does not work on humans.

Then there are the natural weight loss supplements. These have suckered innumerable women (and quite a few men!) into believing that no matter what they eat, this amazing herb and apple cider vinegar combination will cause the kilos to disappear. You need very good eyesight to read the "Only effective when used in conjunction with a calorie-controlled diet" bit in the bottom right hand corner. And these things do not come cheap! And let's not talk about appetite suppressants....the only ones that really work have the nasty side effect of stimulating the metabolism, so when you stop taking it your metabolism slows down again and you end up regaining all the weight you lost, plus a goodly bit more.

Price fixing is not confined to drug companies. It happens in the food industry, the automobile industry, steel, building materials, repair services, alternative medicine!!!-you name it! Like I said in my first post, take the "cons" out and call it piracy, we're being robbed! On the other hand, at least with medicines, once the restrictions are lifted, the price drops drastically.

As for CEOs pocketing huge bonuses, or politicians voting themselves massive salary increases, or plumbers ripping you off for unblocking your toilet.....the culture of greed is everywhere.

[GHGoonette, BSN, RN]

Oh, and by the way...hands up all those who tried out those diet supplements....:nmbrn:

[TDCHIM]

So, several days later - where is the paper the OP promised she would post... ?

Given that her account here has had no activity for ten days, I wouldn't hold my breath for that paper. Still, the discussion's been entertaining.

@Christine Cameron-Do: Nope, I've never tried an OTC/herbal diet supplement. However, I did try a prescription appetite suppressant (overseen by a physician) for a couple of months before my wedding, and that was plenty horrid. It did work, though, and I kept the weight off for about ten months (I only started gaining it back after I got pregnant).

[bagladyrn, RN]

Oh, and by the way...hands up all those who tried out those diet supplements....:nmbrn:

I decided years ago that I wouldn't try any of those, or the diet plans until one came out saying "Results typical" instead of the disclaimer "These results not typical".

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

True. They can't give away a pen but every day a different rep brings $100 worth of Olive Garden or Chili's in to feed the whole office and chat up the provider's for 45 minutes or so. Yeah.......

I went to my doctor around Christmastime last year, and there was a literal parade of salespeople coming in to drop off fruit baskets and other edible treats.

[GHGoonette, BSN, RN]

I went to my doctor around Christmastime last year, and there was a literal parade of salespeople coming in to drop off fruit baskets and other edible treats.

And I've yet to see the doctor who turned down free food-or free anything, for that matter...

It's a wonder they don't all look like houses.

[woopcrane]

Wow. I've read this string several times. I still can't believe some of your comments - as has been said - come back after you have learned a lot more about pathology, psysiology, medicine, pharmacology. I want to read that paper too. WITH citations from peer reviewed journals. With an expansion of your position, and psyiological support of your views. Convince me.

However - If you are going to write it based on emotion, big bad government, or other conspiracy theory with no basis other than alarmist popular pulp - never mind.

Bless.

[sharpeimom]

not everything happens to have been caused by some great conspiracy, i was one of a set of triplets and the one to survive the day we were born. my baby brothers, who had many anomalies incompatible

with life, died just hours later. they were conjoined and shared one complete heart plus a two chambered one. they also had a much more severe form of the genetic neurological blood vessel condition i have. i have had two aneurysms rupture and have had 4 others patched and repaired. the neuro condition also killed my otherwise healthy dad at age 52 and his uncle at age 28.

i have had more than one cva, but my body was able to compensate until this last one with other parts of my brain taking over new tasks.

would just like to know how you could possibly think my oddball genetics could be some great conspiracy instead of just weird genes?!

i'd suggest that you go back and do a lot more reading and studying....