MSN IN Philippines

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Sep 18, 2008

This question has been asked and answered before in this forum. Please do a search so that you can find immediate answers without having to start a new thread.

In my opinion, a degree is a credential you earn wherever it is obtained. Graduate degrees add or advance your knowledge not only in nursing but also in other multidisciplinary fields. However, when it comes to the MSN, realize that MSN programs have an entirely different focus of concentration in one country when compared to another country. My post compares MSN degrees in the Philippines in contrast to the ones offered in the US because those are the two countries I've worked in.

Many nursing roles have been developed in the United States and master's degree preparation have been, for many years, the degree requirement for entry into Advanced Practice Nursing or APN roles. An APN is either a Clinical Nurse Specialist (CNS), Certified Nurse Midwife (CNM), Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist (CRNA), or Nurse Practitioner (NP). There are specific master's degree programs offered for each APN role. Clinical hours and didactic sessions are established by certification boards for each APN specialty field and programs offering these MSN specialties are required to follow these standards in order for their graduates to sit for the examination for board certification in these fields. Other MSN programs are also offered in the US for non-advanced practice areas such as those with a focus on administration, nursing education, informatics, and clinical nurse leader roles. Certification exams have also been developed for graduates of programs that prepare for these roles as well although they are not necessarily required for practicing in these fields.

In contrast, master's degree programs in nursing in the Philippines tend to be generic master's degrees. There are some that allow students to focus on one area of concentration such as Med/Surg, Maternal/Child Health, Community Health, Psychiatric Nursing, or Administration. Many nurses with master's degrees in the Philippines apply the degree for advancing their standing as faculty members in schools of nursing or as administrators and educators in hospital settings. Nursing practice in the Philippines have not began to recognize the field of Advanced Practice Nursing. A nurse who finished the MSN with a Med/Surg focus of concentration or any other area I mentioned does not become eligible for any advanced standing as a specialist in that field since there is no certification available for that role in the Philippines. It woud then make sense that the degree has no practical application in the US setting.

Another issue you will be facing is that if you do get the opportunity to come to the USA, you are starting fresh in a totally new healthcare environment. There are a lot of things you need to re-learn and be accustomed to. Having an MSN but not having the clinical experience in the US setting to back you up will not make a difference in how you will be viewed by a potential employer as you will need to start as a new nurse anyway.

mRiaNe · Sep 18, 2008

most of nursing schools' materal units are not recognized. a reviewer of mine during my nclex review told us that SLU saint louie uni in baguio and UST are recognized.. maybe you can ask the school you prefer if they are...

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Sep 18, 2008

most of nursing schools' materal units are not recognized. a reviewer of mine during my nclex review told us that SLU saint louie uni in baguio and UST are recognized.. maybe you can ask the school you prefer if they are...

Can you explain further how SLU and UST programs are recognized and others are not? Are you saying this because only those schools have the MSN degree and the others have the MAN degree? Like I stated in my initial post, even if you have a master's degree from any school in the Philippines (and I think there are other schools with a similar or better reputation than those schools you mentioned in my opinion) you wil still need to start out as a new nurse. I've worked with clinical instructors with master's degrees from the Philippines who came here to the US and started in the bottom just like any new nurse.

I think a degree is a degree regardless of which school you received it from. But how will you justify being a nurse with a graduate degree or a clinical specialty when you have no clinical experience in the foreign country you are applying for? Nurses in those countries will throw a fit if you get ahead of everyone else without any clinical experience just because you have an MSN degree. Even if you have an MSN, how can you teach in a school of nursing in a foreign country without having experienced working as a staff nurse there first? In the same manner, how can someone trust you with an administrative position without knowing what the protocols, policies and procedures relevant to nursing practice in that foreign country you are applying for admission to? That's the predicament you have to face when you come to a foreign land.

I am in no position to offer advice to anyone I know nothing about. But if I were a new BSN graduate from the Philippines, I would think twice about going for a graduate degree right away. First, because my parents would have spent so much money on my BSN tuition, so why would I incur more expense in pursuing a graduate degree? Second, I would rather strive to get experience as a nurse first. Then, if teaching in the Philippine setting becomes an option for me, then that would be a good time to consider getting a master's degree. At least by doing that, you will have some use for that graduate degree you paid good money for.

Aelith · Sep 18, 2008

Ok here are some of my thoughts on this topic.

I think the question "Would the MSN or MAN degree in the Philippines be recognized in other countries?" is a bit vague.

It could be interpreted as, "Will the MSN or MAN degree from the Philippines be recognized as a Master's degree in other countries". If so, the answer would depend on the University which provided the Master's degree program. Not all Universities in the Philippines are even considered at par with the International standards, only some. And so with the programs that the Universities offer, not all programs will be recognized as Bachelor's degree or Masters degree in another Country. Take Australia for example, most of the Universities in the Philippines are not even considered similar to an Australian University thus, their Bachelor's degree programs are only considered diploma. Although, some of the Universities in the Philippines are considered similar to Australian Universities (only a few are considered at par, UST is one of the few).

Another interpretation could be, "Will the MSN or MAN degree from the Philippines help you get a higher position or will it make you eligible for other positions in another country?". The answer would mainly depend on the institution you will be working with. No one can ever generalize what will happen just because of one incident or one's experience. To be able to work in a higher position, you need some experience to back you up too but that doesn't mean that your MSN degree will be useless. However, I cannot assure you too that it will be used to your advantage in other institutions. I understand that most Master's degree in other countries are more of a specialist degree but there are still general Master's degree that exists in other countries. America isn't everything IMHO.

The best thing to do for now is to check with the hospitals or other institutions you plan to work with in the near future. For example, if you want to go to America, you can check within the specific state you want to work with. You can do the same in other Countries. I'm sure whatever their inputs may be, it will be of great help for your dilemma.

Also, there is really no need to rush with the postgraduate degrees. Usually, it is highly recommended to have at least a year or so of experience before continuing with the postgraduate studies. This is mainly because of the fact that to be able to get to higher position, you will always need the experience to back that up. You can also study while you are working; you'll be hitting two birds with one stone. Anyway, to each his own. If you think you really want to pursue your MSN and if it's ok with your family then by all means do so.

Hope that helped :) Goodluck sis! Just take your time to think and research about it. :)

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Sep 18, 2008

The answer would mainly depend on the institution you will be working with. No one can ever generalize what will happen just because of one incident or one's experience. To be able to work in a higher position, you need some experience to back you up too but that doesn't mean that your MSN degree will be useless. However, I cannot assure you too that it will be used to your advantage in other institutions. I understand that most Master's degree in other countries are more of a specialist degree but there are still general Master's degree that exists in other countries. America isn't everything IMHO.

That's why I said in my first post that I am only comparing between the Philippines and the US because those are the only countries I have experience with. And I'm not generalizing based on personal experience, it is a fact that nursing positions in the United States that require a master's degree as a minimum educational qualification also require a corresponding amount of experience in the field. That's plain and simple.

The best thing to do for now is to check with the hospitals or other institutions you plan to work with in the near future. For example, if you want to go to America, you can check within the specific state you want to work with. You can do the same in other Countries. I'm sure whatever their inputs may be, it will be of great help for your dilemma.

I thought you said America isn't everything and now you are using it as an an example. First of all, why would you have to check with a specific state? In the US, each state grants the RN License for all nurses who passed the NCLEX-RN and were trained in state-approved associate's or bachelor's degrees in nursing. There are newer programs that have started allowing those with a bachelor's degree in other fields to enter a master's degree in nursing and get RN Licensure after passing the NCLEX-RN. An example of this is the new Clinical Nurse Leader role. Again, these are not equivalent to the MSN or MAN programs in the Philippines.

The BSN offered in the Philippines is accepted in the US as an equivalent after the applicant receives a credentials evaluation document as required in most states. All 50 states grant licensure or certification to advanced practice nurses. These are nurses who have received training beyond a Bachelor's degree in a specific advanced practice nursing focus. While requirements are different for each state, all 50 states require completion of an approved CNM, CNS (only applies in some states), CRNA, and NP program none of which are currently offered in the Philippines.

Many nurses in the US admit that there has been no offer of any differential pay between a nurse with a BSN and an ADN around the country. The only exception to that rule is when a nurse works for the federal government such as in hospitals run by the Veteran's Affairs Administration. Those hospitals pay more depending on your highest academic degree. However, foreign nurses are not eligible for employment in government service. So, why again would anyone with a master's degree and no clinical experience get any more recognition other than having the diploma that states they have a master's degree?

Also, there is really no need to rush with the postgraduate degrees. Usually, it is highly recommended to have at least a year or so of experience before continuing with the postgraduate studies. This is mainly because of the fact that to be able to get to higher position, you will always need the experience to back that up. You can also study while you are working; you'll be hitting two birds with one stone. Anyway, to each his own. If you think you really want to pursue your MSN and if it's ok with your family then by all means do so.

Same as what I already said.

Since this is a public forum where everyone can randomly provide input, it is best to post information based on actual facts rather than giving false reassurance that really won't help others in the long run.

suzanne4, RN · Sep 18, 2008

A better way to explain things in just a few sentences would be that the MSN and MAN programs in the Philippines do not offer the CNS or the Advanced Practice programs that require additional licensure here in the US. One gets the basic RN license from the state where they are going to work, and then gets the CNS or the NP license as well in that state.

The issue is that you also must be hired for a job that requires the MSN as inital entry and most employers are going to want actual work experience in the US before hiring someone for a job that requires the Master's degree. Working in the US even as bedside nurse is going to be quite different from what you are used to seeing in your country, the nurses here have much more autonomy in doing things and assessing their patients and determining what they need.

Most coming from the Philippines are going to be hired as bedside nurses and this does not require the MSN for the job as entry level. As mentioned above, the degrees that are offered in the Philippines are what we call generic master's and will not be able to get you the CNS or the NP certification here.

Hope that this helps.

Aelith · Sep 18, 2008

Dear PinoyNP,

I have no intention whatsoever to annoy you or attack your previous posts. Never did I argue with any point that you have stated before. I respect that and like you, I am entitled to my own opinion. I am unsure though why you're being so overcritical of my post. The only thing I could think of is that probably you've been too affected with whatever I have written that is not really intentionally for you. The reply if for the OP. :) You've misunderstood it or took it too seriously. Perhaps you were a bit too sensitive about it.

I thought you said America isn't everything and now you are using it as an an example.

Why can't I use America as an example? I think you're really being overly sensitive and defensive of the country. Just because I said America isn't everything doesn't mean that America should be out of the option. It is just one of the options out there. That's just how it is meant.

Since this is a public forum where everyone can randomly provide input, it is best to post information based on actual facts rather than giving false reassurance that really won't help others in the long run.

I'm pretty sure you don't know everything, just like I don't know everything about every Country. Just as I can share some facts that I know, you can do the same. It doesn't mean that when another poster have a different opinion doesn't mean that she/he is wrong or giving false reassurance. He/She may just know something else that you or the others don't. Learn to respect that. False reassurance is me telling her that it will be recognized and will help her get to higher positions in the long run. That is false reassurance and I'm pretty sure with your credentials you should've realized that. Remember, the thread is not just about the USA, it's anywhere outside the Philippines. So, it is still possible that in some countries, it can be recognized. But like what I said before, the OP can only verify when she asks the institution. That is true right? Also, the OP never asked specifically for specialties. Like what I stated before, the question is a bit vague as it can be interpreted, at least by me in two meanings.

And yes I have given facts not false reassurance that is also why I have advised her to seek answers from institutions because I can't speak for them. I gave some facts, specifically in the recognition in Australia. I didn't say anything particular in the US that it can be recognized right? I actually said that some Countries still have existing general Master's degree and that I am aware that these days most of the Master's program are more on the specialty right? Suggesting an alternative option for the OP to get a more accurate answer is not a false reassurance. It is more of adding possible sources that might be able to give a clear answer to her question. It would still help her get a more accurate answer as I cannot speak for every one else and so can't you.

Granted that you are in the same position, would you be reassured by a handful of people advising you? Or would you still seek advise from other people or whatever you can get? That is just the main point of it all. We are posting here to somehow help the OP. You had your share, I had mine. That's just it.

My only point for this reply is to clarify and hopefully enlighten you that you are not the topic of my reply. And that if you could not be overly sensitive about some points that I or the others might raise. A good debate should not be affected by emotions. It's also a matter of respect for opinions and facts stated and not a competition or a fight of who would know better. :)

To the mods:

I am sorry if this is out of topic. Anyway, just this once to clarify something. And should there be anymore replies for personal points from this which are out of topic, I will ensure that this will be my last reply.

Thanks for understanding. :)

NOW, back to the OP's topic. :)

mark22 · Sep 21, 2008

Ergo, having a master's degree here in the philippines would not entitle you for EB2 Visa?

m-560 · Sep 21, 2008

THank you for all your replies. =)

My purpose in acquiring the MSN degree this soon is because I just wanted to make great use of my time. =)

It is only now that I came to realize how I should be thinking for its effect on my future. Honestly, I was not thinking about earning extra money or immediately being hired for a higher position. It was just simply because I still wanted to go to school and then add the degree to my name.. I was planning that while I'm currently working I can also somehow attend my masters.. since it takes years to acquire a visa..

Now, I am more aware that things should not be like that. Thanks to everyone who replied.=) I'm quite enlightened and at least reality has found its way to me.=)

I was planning to take MSN at UERM.. but I guess I really have to think twice..

What's the EB2 visa? it was mentioned to me by a friend.. Accdg. to the convention she attended, nurses that have MAN or MSN or PhD coupled with experience gets a visa much much earlier than those of none...

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Sep 21, 2008

The EB2 employment based green card is for individuals who are members of the professions with advanced degrees (any degree above a baccalaureate degree or a baccalaureate degree and at least 5 years progressive experience in the professions).

But the MSN will not but you forward on the US immigration list since it in not recognized here.

Good luck with you MSN, I think you have received some great advice from others who have gone through the process.

m-560 · Sep 22, 2008

Thank you very much..now I don't know who to believe..

My friend got that news from a speaker of the US EMbassy on a conference..