We have all seen on the news the terrible scene that played out in the streets in Minnesota when George Floyd, an unarmed 46-year-old black male, was arrested by the Minnesota Police for attempted forgery at a convenience store. The action was caught on video as George Floyd, handcuffed and pinned to the ground face down by an officer who pressed with his full weight with his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck for more than 8 minutes. We watched and heard George Floyd crying out that he couldn't breathe. We heard him calling for "Mama". We watched as his body went limp with the officer still holding him down. This will be a scene I shall never forget.
As nurses, we see the horrific effects of racism in our hospitals and community every day. We cannot remain silent as yet another black man has died at the hands of police...
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George Floyd's last words were "I can't breathe.” George Floyd died shortly after arriving at the hospital."
Nurses jump into action when they hear someone say "I can't breathe", instead of standing there watching them die. Their goal is to save lives, not kill people
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In the case of George Floyd, Minneapolis Police took no care or life-saving measures. Instead, they left him pinned down to the ground until paramedics arrived. Police ignored the pleas of George Floyd and he died.
Nurses care for all patients, regardless of their gender, race, religion or other status. We expect the same from the police. Unfortunately, nurses continue to see the devastating effects of systematic racism and oppression targeting people of color in our communities. We demand justice for George Floyd and a stop to the unnecessary death of black men at the hands of those who should protect them.
As a nurse, or as a compassionate human, how has this horrific event affected you? We have seen protests (some peaceful and some that have erupted into riots), vandalism, looting, and more. What is going on in your community? What actions can nurses take?
Let us stand together and let our voices be heard. Post your comments below.
There isn't one. There is no real oversight of police violence. Never has been. It's always explained away. Evidence of racist policing is explained away, as you have done in these threads. It's traditional and accepted behavior.
Right, so you have no alternative source or explanation for the disproportionate crime nor do you have data to back your claim. Everything is just raaaaaacist. Got it.
Actually no, I recognize police brutality is a problem, but what I don't support is obvious propagandist framing and the multiple non-sequitur that regularly plague these threads.
Right, so you have no alternative source or explanation for the disproportionate crime nor do you have data to back your claim. Everything is just raaaaaacist. Got it.
Actually no, I recognize police brutality is a problem, but what I don't support is obvious propagandist framing and the multiple non-sequitur that regularly plague these threads.
Just say you don't care for nonwhite people and call it a day. You've done everything you can to validate bigotry throughout these threads. All you have left to do is use the n word. I can't believe you actually work in healthcare with the extreme views you have. You talk as though you're apart of the Boogaloo Boys. I'm going to mute you because I despise racists. You've done nothing but insult, deter, distract, and make excuses for racism. Therefore, I've deemed you have no validity whatsoever. Done!
Just say you don't care for nonwhite people and call it a day. You've done everything you can to validate bigotry throughout these threads. All you have left to do is use the n word. I can't believe you actually work in healthcare with the extreme views you have. You talk as though you're apart of the Boogaloo Boys. I'm going to mute you because I despise racists. You've done nothing but insult, deter, distract, and make excuses for racism. Therefore, I've deemed you have no validity whatsoever. Done!
This is 2020 people, this is what discourse looks like. Logical fallacies and fragility. This is why nothing will change.
Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
5 hours ago, Numenor said:
So you fully agree your POV might not be right too yeah? I guess we can conjure than no one is right yeah?
I was refering to your POV. For every source you find that states poor white people are the real victims, I can find another source that says the opposite.
I get to see racial inequalities every day in my job. And got to experience racial prejudice first hand last year when the white male who killed 51 muslim worshippers got knocked off the road outside my house and I was unable to go home because the *** had wired his car to go boom. His victims came through my hospital, and we not just members of the muslim community whose lives were turned upside down. Many members of the treating team were traumatised by the actions of this racist piece of crap
I believe that you are using your stats to support your prejudices. I'd rather use stats to support the facts
And before you accuse me of being a keyboard warrior, I would have no issue in saying all of the above to your face. Given that you live in a different country that is unlikely to happen, however if you ever come out to NZ, look me up
I was refering to your POV. For every source you find that states poor white people are the real victims, I can find another source that says the opposite.
I get to see racial inequalities every day in my job. And got to experience racial prejudice first hand last year when the white male who killed 51 muslim worshippers got knocked off the road outside my house and I was unable to go home because the *** had wired his car to go boom. His victims came through my hospital, and we not just members of the muslim community whose lives were turned upside down. Many members of the treating team were traumatised by the actions of this racist piece of crap
I believe that you are using your stats to support your prejudices. I'd rather use stats to support the facts
And before you accuse me of being a keyboard warrior, I would have no issue in saying all of the above to your face. Given that you live in a different country that is unlikely to happen, however if you ever come out to NZ, look me up
Nothing you posted as anything to do with topic at hand in any context. Appeals to emotions and strawmans will not detract from the facts even if they make you uncomfortable. The fact in 2020 you can point out gaping holes in agenda setting narratives and then get labeled as "x" is comical but also downright dystopian. It's so programmed in your response that you are making outlandish assumptions. These are common tactics from people who lack a cohesive argument or can't handle direct critiques without responding with baseless diatribes.
I have no idea what the point of your last post is even about. You'll say it to my face? Uh okay, is that like a weirdly veiled threat to meet you at the playground after school or something? Sure I will swing by after visiting Mt. Doom and hitching a ride around the islands with my whale pals. Strange.
I agree that police brutality is a problem for everyone and that needs to change. If real police change comes out of this movement then great. Side note: I did read the UMich article you posted about prison disparities ( I ignored the CNN links) and the authors honestly admit that looking at sentencing point blank comes with a host of issues/distorted results which they dutifully report, namely "criminal conduct", past criminal history, aggravating factors and weapons involved. Reading the whole paper gives the reader the idea that the authors are suggesting possible discrepancies but listing a HOST of variables that are not fully explained. Not sure if you read it all the way though but I actually did...Stats to support the facts right?
Here is loaded question: Would things be different if George Floyd didn't shove a gun into a pregnant woman's stomach during a previous armed robbery and have rap sheet a mile long? Inquiring minds what to know. See how this works?
Numenor, I do think I do see how this works. It seems to me that you are aiming for a bit of guilt reduction with the help of the Just-world hypothesis.
Do you have any evidence that supports your claim that the robbery victim in 2007 was indeed pregnant? I looked and didn’t find any. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, but as I said, I was unable to find it. Your description conjures up the image of a visibly third trimester pregnant robbery victim with a weapon shoved into her stomach. Most people find that thought upsetting, so I have to wonder about your motivation when you asked your ”inquiring mind” question.
Do you have access to information that I’m not privy to? Do you know that the four officers had knowledge of George Floyd’s previous arrest record at the time they were using their (three) collective body weights to keep him down on the sidewalk?
As former law enforcement (albeit on a different continent) I can tell you that it’s extremely unlikely that they at that stage knew the details of individual crimes a person was previously convicted of, thirteen years prior in a different state. So I can only deduce that your reason for bringing up the pregnancy was an attempt at emotional manipulation and blame-shifting.
Now on to the question you posed; would things be different of he hadn’t had a previous arrest record? I’m not exactly sure what you mean by ”different”. Do you mean that Mr Floyd wouldn’t have died?
There are at least two ways to interpret your question. One is; would these police officers have been less prone to use excessive force if their victim had been a first-time offender?
The other is, does the victim’s previous criminal record somehow explain or justify the level of force used in his arrest, ie the victim due to his previous criminality shared some of the responsibility for the development and the officers are as a consequence somewhat less culpable?
When making an arrest the officer’s will make a threat assessment based on the information available to them at the time. The assessment isn’t static, it’s fluid and it changes depending on how the situation evolves.
In the situation where the arrestee is handcuffed behind his back and in the prone position, he does not pose a serious threat to officer or public safety. I personally can’t think of ANY situation where it would be either required or acceptable to compress a person’s neck for close to nine minutes.
As I’ve already mentioned, I highly doubt that the officers had knowledge of the details of previous crimes. But even of they had, and your so far unsupported claim that the robbery victim was pregnant and the implication that the perpetrator was aware of her status, it should have no bearing on how arresting officers behave themselves in 2020 with an arrestee who’s already under control/secured.
Numenor, I do think I do see how this works. It seems to me that you are aiming for a bit of guilt reduction with the help of the Just-world hypothesis.
Do you have any evidence that supports your claim that the robbery victim in 2007 was indeed pregnant? I looked and didn’t find any. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, but as I said, I was unable to find it. Your description conjures up the image of a visibly third trimester pregnant robbery victim with a weapon shoved into her stomach. Most people find that thought upsetting, so I have to wonder about your motivation when you asked your ”inquiring mind” question.
Do you have access to information that I’m not privy to? Do you know that the four officers had knowledge of George Floyd’s previous arrest record at the time they were using their (three) collective body weights to keep him down on the sidewalk?
As former law enforcement (albeit on a different continent) I can tell you that it’s extremely unlikely that they at that stage knew the details of individual crimes a person was previously convicted of, thirteen years prior in a different state. So I can only deduce that your reason for bringing up the pregnancy was an attempt at emotional manipulation and blame-shifting.
Now on to the question you posed; would things be different of he hadn’t had a previous arrest record? I’m not exactly sure what you mean by ”different”. Do you mean that Mr Floyd wouldn’t have died?
There are at least two ways to interpret your question. One is; would these police officers have been less prone to use excessive force if their victim had been a first-time offender?
The other is, does the victim’s previous criminal record somehow explain or justify the level of force used in his arrest, ie the victim due to his previous criminality shared some of the responsibility for the development and the officers are as a consequence somewhat less culpable?
When making an arrest the officer’s will make a threat assessment based on the information available to them at the time. The assessment isn’t static, it’s fluid and it changes depending on how the situation evolves.
In the situation where the arrestee is handcuffed behind his back and in the prone position, he does not pose a serious threat to officer or public safety. I personally can’t think of ANY situation where it would be either required or acceptable to compress a person’s neck for close to nine minutes.
As I’ve already mentioned, I highly doubt that the officers had knowledge of the details of previous crimes. But even of they had, and your so far unsupported claim that the robbery victim was pregnant and the implication that the perpetrator was aware of her status, it should have no bearing on how arresting officers behave themselves in 2020 with an arrestee who’s already under control/secured.
Literally WHY I framed the question that way (which was as a reply to the poster asking loaded questions), to conjure an image which is what people do in these situations. One can frame the person as a loving father, hard working man etc. or as a dangerous criminal without looking at the facts. That's why these are loaded/begging the scenarios which are dangerous regardless of whose side it is. Honestly not sure why you extrapolated one part of my quote and went on a expose surrounding it. That is misleading and disingenuous. I don't know for sure if she was pregnant (those are claims) but I do know the charges were real. The purpose of the question wasn't to draw in its truthfulness but to paint a picture.
Furthermore, I am in no way justifying the killing or death of Mr. Floyd regardless of his criminal past (and NOWHERE in any of my posts have I stated that) and it seems like you took a quote out of context to go on a rant about something I wasn't even addressing. Honestly, you lost me half way through and seems like you wanted to say something and misdirected quote from me to justify it. Weird.
You are crusading against a viewpoint that isn't even there my dude/dudette. Frankly, as a former police officer I find it strange/disturbing you would take a snippet of a quote WITHOUT context while not noting who I was replying to and then formulate an entire irrelevant strawman post around it. This is akin to posting a piece of evidence on a body then pointing the finger at the supposed perpetrator to fit the would be story.
If you aren't going to respond, I am not going to bother with a flushed out response. I am honestly surprised you ask these low hanging fruit questions/answers that are literally common knowledge even among most people I debate. To be frank, most of your questions are loaded/red herring fallacies and not worth addressing. This isn't my first rodeo with debating and I don't really understand what you mean regarding my "graduate education". Yeah I can read a study and determine its validity, so what? You don't need a degree to read and determine a study's applicability.
Here is loaded question: Would things be different if George Floyd didn't shove a gun into a pregnant woman's stomach during a previous armed robbery and have rap sheet a mile long? Inquiring minds what to know. See how this works?
Here is some "peer reviewed" data you asked for which was easily googleable in 5 minutes. You can draw your own conclusions rather than rely on obfuscation.
The reason I only quoted the second paragraph was that it wasn’t apparent to me that the first and third paragraphs were directly linked to the one I quoted and replied to. For context I felt I had to quote the better part of this thread, and that’s hardly doable. But here’s the entire post you’re referring to, instead of just the middle paragraph.
You included a lot of emotional words in your response to my post. Disingenuous, misleading, weird, going on a rant, crusading, disturbing,strawman post and akin to planting evidence on a body (in order to frame someone I assume?). By using this language/tone it seems to me that you’re trying to invalidate my post. Am I wrong? (That bit about planting evidence should probably make me angry, but I seldom get upset with the internet).
To me the question remains, regardless of your purpose for posting your ”inquiring minds” question. WHY did you choose to introduce a claim, that’s not a verifiable fact, but undoubtedly paints the man who died in a situation involving four police officers, in a very poor light?
Claiming that someone shoved a gun into the stomach of a pregnant woman is quite inflammatory. The reason I’m continuing to bring this up is because this claim, which for all we know is a falsehood, is making the rounds in certain internet circles. That makes me wary. You know, it’s not my first rodeo either.
Despite your reply, I still don’t fully understand what you wanted to achieve with your ”would it have made a difference” query. Loving husband, vicious criminal or both, doesn’t make a damn bit of difference to how an arrest should be handled ONCE the arrestee is under control.
What happened to Mr Floyd was simply horrible and I’m glad you seem to agree that it was wrong.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Police simply need better training, better oversight, less immunity, and less money. Society needs to stop ignoring racism and protecting the feelings of the racists.
agree with too much baloney, and having been on some white/right supremacy threads lately (they came unsolited on my email), the tone of some of this crime documentation retorts has the same feel to it as white supremacists. ?? Let me say that without context, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics... Mark Twain did not make that up, but was able to use it when statistics have been used to support a weak argument.
SPLC has found that when you break out crime statistics along the lines of single female headed households ( an unfortunate social context for some black females), crime rates break evenly among white and black persons.
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Right, so you have no alternative source or explanation for the disproportionate crime nor do you have data to back your claim. Everything is just raaaaaacist. Got it.
Actually no, I recognize police brutality is a problem, but what I don't support is obvious propagandist framing and the multiple non-sequitur that regularly plague these threads.