I have been considering joining the Air Force after I graduate with my BSN this December. My step dad was in the AF and I have learned a lot about it over the years; I believe it is a great path to take in terms of nursing because of the opportunities available for travel, promotion, leadership, etc. plus more respect from doctors.
The only thing holding me back in my mind is that I am so opposed to what we are doing in iraq right now. I strongly disagree with a lot of President bush's decisions, and I am afraid this makes me the wrong type of person for the military. I love my country and have always been politically active/opinionated. But I have very little respect for our current administration.
Are you looked down upon in the military if you disagree with the president or oppose the war? I know this might seem like a dumb thing to ask, but i am the kind of person who wants to live my life in an honest way, and if I joined the AF I could not pretend to support this war when I don't. I support the men and women of the military, not the war.
I do not support terrorism either. I just don't support the way the president has handled the situation. I think our military deserves better than this.
Do your research as you'd planned and you will make the right decisions.
With some military people, just like in the " real" world, there are those that just won't open their eyes to reality and blindly trust in the propoganda thrown at them. (because there were WMD and legions of islamic terrorists in Iraq before the war--don't think so) Oh well, right?
I have just finished the commissioning process for the AFR and I have no doubts, nor run into any negative opinions in the process---certainly no one telling me I am not "military material" for my educated views. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.
mjlrn97 - LOL, we can get you an age waiver since your only one year past the age criteria limit of 46 yrs old to enter the Army Nurse Corps.
:roll You are too funny.........surely the Army can't be so desperate for troops that they'd take an old woman like me!
With all my aches, pains, extra tons and ailments, I'd probably wash out in reception!!:chuckle
Thanks anyway, Corvette Guy, and I do appreciate the kind words about my daughter, of whom I am indeed very, very proud. Love your military prayer, too.
Do your research as you'd planned and you will make the right decisions.
With some military people, just like in the " real" world, there are those that just won't open their eyes to reality and blindly trust in the propoganda thrown at them. (because there were WMD and legions of islamic terrorists in Iraq before the war--don't think so) Oh well, right?
I have just finished the commissioning process for the AFR and I have no doubts, nor run into any negative opinions in the process---certainly no one telling me I am not "military material" for my educated views. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Good luck to you,
Mab
Mab - You sure do like to take one phrase [military material] I posted and run with it. Yet, you continue to ignore any of my other post in order to grasp my complete thoughts on this topic. Plus, I don't appreciate your, "blindly trust in propaganda thrown at them", statement. If you feel the need to debate with me, then do so via PM, clear?
luvmy2angels- Agreed, arrogant/ignorant MDs exist in both the civilian & military sector. However, it has been my experience less such arrogant/ignorant MDs exist in the military. Besides, the MDs & RNs are all officers, and an RN can be a senior ranking officer over an MD. All & all, I'd definitely say more respect is received by military RNs vs. civilian RNs.
My wife & I have heated & short lived political discussions regards to my Commander-in-Chief, the Honorable George W. Bush, President of the United States of America. Obviously, she is a Democrat, and I, a Republican. I have been more of a Republican [never vote straight across the board Republican] since I voted for one of the best Presidents in US history, the Honorable Ronald Reagan, may he rest in peace.
baby-gurl0604 - You posted, "I support the men and women of the military, not the war." I support my Commander-in-Chief & our Troops 100% OCONUS, CONUS, and in my backyard. FYI, it is not my place, as an American Soldier, to discuss publically my political views on any subject matter in detail regards to the current administration. I will say I have a lot of respect for those in high political office. I realize some of those individuals are arrogant/ignorant, too, and are far more interested in personal gains, than what is best for the United States of America, both domestic, as well as abroad. This is not a perfect world, nor or wars perfect. My military brothers & sisters at arms die d/t friendly fire [i hate that phrase], lack of supplies, and questionable missions. However, as an American Soldier I must support the honorable intentions of our war efforts in Iraq, as well as our Global War on Terrorist. Do we wait until Terrorist strike again on our home soil? I think NOT!
Think long & hard before submitting your paperwork for direct commission into the AF Nurse Corps. I question whether, or not your military material [no disrespect intended]. I'd advise further discussions with your step-dad. BTW, I thank him for his military service.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I respectfully disagree with you; You say that as a soldier, you must not discuss your political views, and that you must support the honorable intentions for the war in iraq. Well, keeping one's political opinion's to themself may be necessary for someone to be a good officer, but I DO NOT believe that political apathy or conforming one's opinion's are requirements or necessary to succeed. Last time i checked, an officer is supposed to be a leader, not a follower. I have the right to support anything I want. I may choose not to express my views to people and keep quiet about some things, but you can not tell people what they can and can't believe. That is the principal this country was founded upon!
Vietnam is an example of a military action that many people, including the troops, were opposed to, but they still went and served because they loved their country and felt a duty to serve (e.g. john Kerry). As a nurse I serve my patients, and in this case, the patients are soldiers. My desire to serve has nothing to do with my desire to serve President bush. He will only be in office for two years once I am in the military...anyone could be president after him! And you know what? it doesn't matter who it is, because I will always love my country. I believe my interests and concerns about our political affairs make me patriotic. Some people in this thread have encouraged political apathy, being agnostic about it all. But isn't that taking for granted everything that makes this country great? Political apathy is about as anti-American as you can get. Here, we HAVE the right to freely support and worship whomever we want. We HAVE the right to elect leaders whom we feel will serve us well. Not a whole lot of other places are like that nowadays. You can say I am not military material, that I am too outspoken about my views. But as an officer, I will need to know how to lead, and know how to be an example to others. I know myself, I know I am an independent thinker and I know I can and will do a damn fine job of serving our country as a nurse in the US military.
Thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread; I know it is not an easy topic but I think it's great to see so many different sides on the issue.
:roll You are too funny.........surely the Army can't be so desperate for troops that they'd take an old woman like me!
With all my aches, pains, extra tons and ailments, I'd probably wash out in reception!!:chuckle
Thanks anyway, Corvette Guy, and I do appreciate the kind words about my daughter, of whom I am indeed very, very proud. Love your military prayer, too.
Yea, I'm soon to be 45 yrs old. I can still max my push-ups & sit-ups, and love going to Golds Gym. However, I've learned to take advil before & after my workouts.
I appreciate the kind words. I don't know why all the hate from Mab. Although, I do believe she has taken a phrase of mine out of context. Bottom line, as long as a member of the US Armed Forces can remain politically agnostic, then they are good to GO! HOOAH!
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I respectfully disagree with you; You say that as a soldier, you must not discuss your political views, and that you must support the honorable intentions for the war in iraq. Well, keeping one's political opinion's to themself may be necessary for someone to be a good officer, but I DO NOT believe that political apathy or conforming one's opinion's are requirements or necessary to succeed. Last time i checked, an officer is supposed to be a leader, not a follower. I have the right to support anything I want. I may choose not to express my views to people and keep quiet about some things, but you can not tell people what they can and can't believe. That is the principal this country was founded upon!
Vietnam is an example of a military action that many people, including the troops, were opposed to, but they still went and served because they loved their country and felt a duty to serve (e.g. john Kerry). As a nurse I serve my patients, and in this case, the patients are soldiers. My desire to serve has nothing to do with my desire to serve President bush. He will only be in office for two years once I am in the military...anyone could be president after him! And you know what? it doesn't matter who it is, because I will always love my country. I believe my interests and concerns about our political affairs make me patriotic. Some people in this thread have encouraged political apathy, being agnostic about it all. But isn't that taking for granted everything that makes this country great? Political apathy is about as anti-American as you can get. Here, we HAVE the right to freely support and worship whomever we want. We HAVE the right to elect leaders whom we feel will serve us well. Not a whole lot of other places are like that nowadays. You can say I am not military material, that I am too outspoken about my views. But as an officer, I will need to know how to lead, and know how to be an example to others. I know myself, I know I am an independent thinker and I know I can and will do a damn fine job of serving our country as a nurse in the US military.
Thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread; I know it is not an easy topic but I think it's great to see so many different sides on the issue.
As a former Nation Guard flight nurse and the daughter of a 28 year career military officer, I was taught two things. First, when in uniform you do not publish your personal views, whatever they may be. Two, out of uniform you are entitled to say anything, as long as it does not reflect poorly on the military. Despite what some think, I believe that everyone supports our men and women in uniform. They do not necessarily support our President. And the two are mutually exclusive.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I respectfully disagree with you; You say that as a soldier, you must not discuss your political views, and that you must support the honorable intentions for the war in iraq. Well, keeping one's political opinion's to themself may be necessary for someone to be a good officer, but I DO NOT believe that political apathy or conforming one's opinion's are requirements or necessary to succeed. Last time i checked, an officer is supposed to be a leader, not a follower. I have the right to support anything I want. I may choose not to express my views to people and keep quiet about some things, but you can not tell people what they can and can't believe. That is the principal this country was founded upon!
Vietnam is an example of a military action that many people, including the troops, were opposed to, but they still went and served because they loved their country and felt a duty to serve (e.g. john Kerry). As a nurse I serve my patients, and in this case, the patients are soldiers. My desire to serve has nothing to do with my desire to serve President bush. He will only be in office for two years once I am in the military...anyone could be president after him! And you know what? it doesn't matter who it is, because I will always love my country. I believe my interests and concerns about our political affairs make me patriotic. Some people in this thread have encouraged political apathy, being agnostic about it all. But isn't that taking for granted everything that makes this country great? Political apathy is about as anti-American as you can get. Here, we HAVE the right to freely support and worship whomever we want. We HAVE the right to elect leaders whom we feel will serve us well. Not a whole lot of other places are like that nowadays. You can say I am not military material, that I am too outspoken about my views. But as an officer, I will need to know how to lead, and know how to be an example to others. I know myself, I know I am an independent thinker and I know I can and will do a damn fine job of serving our country as a nurse in the US military.
Thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread; I know it is not an easy topic but I think it's great to see so many different sides on the issue.
Okay, I will try one more time to set the record straight. In my lap is the 49th Edition of the Army Officer's Guide. On pages 103 & 104, covers specifically the professional restrictions imposed on Army officers regards to political activity;
Article 88, UCMJ; "Any officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, Vice President, Congress, Secretary of defense, or a Secretary of a Department, a Govenor or a legislature of any State, Territory, or other possession of the United States in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct." Therefore, it is appropriate to refrain from public criticism of civilian officials. Public criticism of a government official can be interpreted as a statement with political intent. This applies to public pronouncements, speeches, published letters or editorials, or any other means of expression in a public forum, including public internet message boards.
Military Officers should stay out of politics, and remain apart from political controversy. This is not just my opinion but well established military doctrine. Furthermore, officers must serve the constitutionally legitimate civilian government and, given this duty, should refrain from making public pronouncements of political opinion. This includes political bumper stickers on privately owned vehicles, campaign signs in front of quarters, and the like are public statements, and as such, are inappropriate.
As servants of the republic and defenders of the Constitution, officers have no legitimate reason to officially take sides, apart from thier legally affirmed right to vote and to contact thier representatives in Congress.
Again, the above statements came directly from the 49th edition of the Army Officer's Guide [iSBN 0-8117-2649-5]. So, yes it is most appropriate for a military officer to stay neutral in political matters, whether you like it or not.
Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.
Despite what some think, I believe that everyone supports our men and women in uniform. They do not necessarily support our President. And the two are mutually exclusive.
Grannynurse
Well, maybe not always........but I'm perfectly comfortable with the notion that an American can be one hundred percent supportive of our military men and women without being in agreement with their commander in chief. I don't see any inconsistency in this position whatsoever........one does not necessarily have anything to do with the other.
I've always had trouble understanding why some believe it's a love-me-love-my-dog sort of thing---in other words, you can't support the troops if you're against the war or don't respect the president. Sorry, but it's no different than supporting your childrens' school and having a personal disagreement with the principal on a disciplinary matter: the institution and the maker of said institution's policies are totally separate issues.
As a former National Guard flight nurse and the daughter of a 28 year career military officer, I was taught two things. First, when in uniform you do not publish your personal views, whatever they may be. Two, out of uniform you are entitled to say anything, as long as it does not reflect poorly on the military. Despite what some think, I believe that everyone supports our men and women in uniform. They do not necessarily support our President. And the two are mutually exclusive.
Grannynurse
I definitely agree that when in military uniform you don't publish your personal views. However, while on active duty, no matter if a military officer is in uniform, or not they are still a servant and defender of the US Constitution 365/24/7. As a member of the US Armed Forces, you just can't throw on civilian attire and say whatever you please about civilian government officials, then be given amnesty for doing so just because it was during off-duty time.
It is important to remember, the President of the United States is also the Commander-in-Chief of the US Armed Forces. Therefore, clearly, no military service member should speak publically against President George W. Bush. So, militarily publically speaking [if that makes sense?] President Bush, and our military troops are not mutually exclusive. Of course, from a civilian standpoint... yes, the support for our President, and our troops are mutually exclusive.
BTW, thank you for your military service in the National Guard.
Well, maybe not always........but I'm perfectly comfortable with the notion that an American can be one hundred percent supportive of our military men and women without being in agreement with their Commander-in-Chief. I don't see any inconsistency in this position whatsoever........one does not necessarily have anything to do with the other.
I've always had trouble understanding why some believe it's a love-me-love-my-dog sort of thing---in other words, you can't support the troops if you're against the war or don't respect the president. Sorry, but it's no different than supporting your childrens' school and having a personal disagreement with the principal on a disciplinary matter: the institution and the maker of said institution's policies are totally separate issues.
But, then, that's just my not-so-humble opinion.
You make some very valid points... from a civilian perspective.
I think its great out troops have the majority of public support. I'm thankful public opinion of today's troops is not the same as was in the late 60's & 70's. I can remember back when I was in the USMC in the 80's hearing stories from senior SNCOs on how the troops were scorned after returning from Vietnam. So, please don't misunderstand me. I realize civilians have every right to publically voice opposition towards our government's representatives, yet able to whole-heartedly support out troops.
As my last thought on the subject--as it was originally intended to help babygurl with her decision and I, for one, would be proud to serve with her should she decide that way, is this:
Corvette guy(hee) what you interpret as "hate" is simply dialogue and apparent disagreement. Why characterize it as hate? Perhaps that is one of the problems we have in our national discourse as well. Simply not liking or agreeing with what someone says does not automatically make it hate speech.
And, no, there will be no PM. I have no desire or inclination to "debate" you. Maybe that's the issue. Most of us were having a discussion, no need to turn it into a debate which by definition slots people on opposing sides.
Besides, anything I had to say could be shared publicly. I'm assuming that what you might offer, could not.
baby_gurl0604
59 Posts
I do not support terrorism either. I just don't support the way the president has handled the situation. I think our military deserves better than this.