Hi everyone. I just found out that an MNA will be working on our 50 bed LTC unit:eek: ! Has anyone worked with an MNA? I'm a new LPN, just got used to passing meds to 25 pts, and am really on the fence about this. On one hand, I'm disgusted that I spent 13 G's obtaining my LPN, and struggled through a tough Pharmacology course :angryfire . On the other, maybe this will be a help. I really like working alone on my side. I keep people(LNAs, residents, visitors) around my cart at a mininum, cause I find it distracting. Am I going to be constantly bumping into the MNA? How does it work? BTW, there has been NO mention of an orientation for the nurses in regards to this. Oh, and the MNA will be earning 3 dollars an hour more than I do. Hmmm. any feedback will be welcome:) .
So it is not just the pharm class in LPN school, but the total picture, your a&p classes and whatnot, your understanding of the disease process, your clinicals.....that prepare you to give meds...
Yes.
Someone once said, make things as simple as you can and still do them well, but no simpleler....Sounds like people making these decisions on the state level are making things too simple.
Specializes in Medical/Surgical/Maternal and Child.
I understand that MNAs, PCAS or CNAS who pass meds are working under their immediate RN's/LPN's license. I refused a job at the VA Medical Center because student nurses are allowed to pass meds without their instructors on the floors. There is no way in h**l I would work in place that would allow unlicensed personnel do the jobs which require a licensed person to do. I worked too hard for my license and I'm not about to lose it over somebody else's med errors. Plus, with the staffing situation the way it is in many hospitals and LTCs, who will have the time to monitor these people?????
Okay...the residents ONLY take PO meds or insulin?:uhoh21: I have personally, in my short time as an LPN, seen "stable" diabetics suddenly go south. OMG, what if an MNA had to admin regularly scheduled insulin (like 11 units before meals), went into that particular pt room to administer it, and the pt was a little crabby, maybe sweating a little. Not knowing any better, the MNA gives the insulin AS ORDERED, and VOILA one very sick, if not dead pt. Nurses know what subtle signs to look for, and know how to assess. PO meds are just as serious as any other medication. What if an MNA was administering the wrong dose, of let's say Coumadin..for days, or weeks even?! The hair on my head is standing up. Have any nurses out there actually worked with an MNA? How did it go? Thank you all for your input.
I work at an Assisted Living Facility and we don't have Nurses on duty during my shift (2nd). The CNA II is my supervisor. We have Med Techs and they do the med passes. The residents in my facility only take PO meds or insulin injections. The Med Techs do both of these.
I'm not sure what Med Techs are allowed to pass/do in a hospital setting.
I know, Marie. I'm sending out my resume. It's discouraging. I really didn't want to change jobs, but... I'm not up to this task. That post about the MNAs in clinicals was very scary. I'm not willing to go there. Thanks again for all the input:)
This whole concept for Illinois got voted down big time. With all the variences in training.......wouldn't fly.
I did read that thread about the molecular biologist, etc......but this is not the norm. Correct me if I am wrong. :) But what is amazing: we go to school, pass through hurdles to take a test that is nationally recognized.....and the first poster is paid $3 less.
Wolfy....I guess I echo your post.
I know this concept of some Nursing Assts. earning more then Nurses(lpn/rn)is a strange unfathomable idea to some but it happened regualrly at the VA Medical System a few years back.The way the VA system works is on a GS Step level seniority system. NAs top out at a GS4, step 10. There are 10 steps in each GS Level. So when a new LPN can in from out of school(no experience), I saw where they were started at say a GS4, step 1, while many old Nursing assistants through many years service, had topped out at a GS4 step 10--of which there may have been a difference of $5-$8,000. Some VAs had special NAs who worked in the OR and they were the same GS Level as LPNs. I saw a few cases where before RN Salaries were boosted up due to the shortage, NAs at the top of their payscale were making more then a New Graduate Rn. This inequity should never happen, this disparity in salaries between licensed and unlicensed personnel as the Responsabilities simply have no comparison. That is one reason the VA has an extremely hard time keeping nurses, be it LPN or RNs.And the Veterans suffer for it, this constant staff turnover. In many VAs, the Janitors or Lawn Mowers earn as much or more then LPNs. Less work and resonsability also!
What I am trying to say is "you are preaching to the choir!:Melody: I mean this in reference to this quote:
I understand that MNAs, PCAS or CNAS who pass meds are working under their immediate RN's/LPN's license. I refused a job at the VA Medical Center because student nurses are allowed to pass meds without their instructors on the floors. There is no way in h**l I would work in place that would allow unlicensed personnel do the jobs which require a licensed person to do. I worked too hard for my license and I'm not about to lose it over somebody else's med errors. Plus, with the staffing situation the way it is in many hospitals and LTCs, who will have the time to monitor these people?????
Really? The LPN program that I went "through" had a pharmacology class that was 4 mos long, 6 credit hours I've never heard of a CMA going to any class for more than two weeks.
Hellllllo . . . . .. I was holding myself back (threw) but see you did it for me.
Thanks!
There is more than one lengthy thread on this issue - the concensus is NO to medication aides.
There is also no way I would ever work with a med aide.
I was a med tech for 4 years before becoming an RN (Oh, yes...I also made as much as an LPN because I was per diem, but no benefits)
There were many things I was not aware of (that could have killed someone) regarding medications and food & drug interactions, necessary nursing interventions....
In nursing school, we had to know everything about a med, but as a med tech, basically, all you had to know are the 5 rights of med passing. Nothing about evaluating certain VS or labs before administering a med was ever done, or giving certain meds on time,... And if there are no parameters, most med tech won't even bother taking BP or P (and they are not trained to take Apical Pulse) and some just like some CNA's will just make up the numbers.
So know this, no matter how experienced this person is, they do not have the knowledge that a nurse has. This is worse than directing a CNA to do ADL's, these people are giving drugs:eek: So, you will have to be specific about things that need to be done, YOU ARE STILL THEIR SUPERVISOR!!! and you are still responsible.
Do not AND I REPEAT do not assume that she will do her job as you would, because she may not be that well informed.
I would let them know from the beginning what you do when you pass meds, and make sure they know they can ask you any questions.
Oh happy day! I just got a new job in an LTC for 4 dolloars more an hour, good benefits, and NO WEEKENDS! Great benefits, small place. Day Shift! Thank God, I just couldn't deal. Thank you for all your input and support:roll
One of the most important tasks involved with passing meds is assurring that the right med is being given to the right pt. at the right time FOR THE RIGHT REASON and with the appropriate assessments done.
If an MNP has not taken a pharmacology course, AND a pathophysiology course, AND a health assessment course, he or she will NOT possess the skills or knowledge necessary for administering medication.
It is NOT simply a matter of being organized. It is knowing not only the meds, but the pt. I was always taught in nursing school, that if you are giving a med, you better know darn well what and why you are giving. If it is a BP med, and you don't have a current BP, don't even THINK of giving it.
So many medications have interactions, and if you are not aware of these, you may miss a bad order, and put a pt. in grave danger.
Ultimately, I would fight this decision tooth and nail. It is MY license at risk, and nobody else's. I would not place it on the line for anyone...even to make one job easier.
:yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap: 
Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN
12,126 Posts
Yes.
Exactly. :)