Med-Mal Reform -- Write your Senator

rn29306 · Apr 30, 2006

It sounds to me like you were excused because you are a healthcare professional, not because you are intelligent. That's one heck of an extrapolation you made.

You may not like what he's saying, but calling him personally unintelligent is going a little far. So what if you don't like what he says, have you honestly got to resort to name calling?

Calling someone who has completed anesthesia training (even if it is AA school ) unintelligent just shows your ignorance about our education and daily interaction with changing environments.

We are constantly being told information by drug reps, you have to look past the economic agendas and critically evaluate situations and research. Attorneys don't like people such as jwk, myself, or others on this board that critically evaluate complex circumstances on a daily basis.

Take it or leave it.

jwk · Apr 30, 2006

How's this for perspective?
1. 98,000 preventable deaths due to medical errors every year. Only about 15% of those injured ever sue.
2. Physicians only ~ 3% of their practice earnings on medical malpractice insurance as compared to over 50% for their salary. That's some "crisis".
3. Only 5% of doctors account for >50% of malpractice payouts. But you think the solution is to punish the victims instead of aggressively going after incompetent healthcare providers?
4. I don't know about anywhere else, but in Georgia there has been no mass exodus of physicians due to high malpractice insurance. In fact there are more practicing physicians in this state than ever.
There's your perspective.

1) I'm curious - what are you PERSONALLY doing to prevent medical errors?

2) Where did you come up with THAT number, Plaintiff's Lawyers R Us? You think an OB practice that takes in $1 million a year only pays $30k in malpractice premiums? You're clueless at best if that's truly your opinion (see my last paragraph below)

3) Victims aren't being punished - legitimate malpractice claims are not at issue.

4) You're kidding, right? Twenty years ago, the concept of a non-OB gynecologist was almost non-existent except in academia. Nowadays, there are scores of them just in Atlanta. Why do many OB docs quit delivering babies in the prime years of their career?

If I had to guess you're either 1) a lawyer 2) married to a lawyer 3) are in law school 4) a "legal nurse consultant" or, 5) a Democrat --- or some combination thereof.

SharonH, RN · Apr 30, 2006

You may not like what he's saying, but calling him personally unintelligent is going a little far. So what if you don't like what he says, have you honestly got to resort to name calling?
Calling someone who has completed anesthesia training (even if it is AA school ) unintelligent just shows your ignorance about our education and daily interaction with changing environments.
We are constantly being told information by drug reps, you have to look past the economic agendas and critically evaluate situations and research. Attorneys don't like people such as jwk, myself, or others on this board that critically evaluate complex circumstances on a daily basis.
Take it or leave it.

What are you talking about? I didn't call anyone unintelligent, go back and reread the posts and try to understand what the exchange is about before you make accusations. Start at post #26 and catch up.

SharonH, RN · Apr 30, 2006

1) I'm curious - what are you PERSONALLY doing to prevent medical errors?
2) Where did you come up with THAT number, Plaintiff's Lawyers R Us? You think an OB practice that takes in $1 million a year only pays $30k in malpractice premiums? You're clueless at best if that's truly your opinion (see my last paragraph below)
3) Victims aren't being punished - legitimate malpractice claims are not at issue.
4) You're kidding, right? Twenty years ago, the concept of a non-OB gynecologist was almost non-existent except in academia. Nowadays, there are scores of them just in Atlanta. Why do many OB docs quit delivering babies in the prime years of their career?
If I had to guess you're either 1) a lawyer 2) married to a lawyer 3) are in law school 4) a "legal nurse consultant" or, 5) a Democrat --- or some combination thereof.

jwk, so far I am enjoying this debate (with the exception of the pot-stirrers) but please don't try to make this personal. Whether or not I am an attorney or am married to one or have slept with a Supreme court judge is immaterial to this discussion and I am not going there with you.

Now as for what I am personally doing to prevent errors, are you kidding? I am constantly reviewing processes both officially and unofficially and when I see the potential for a problem, I make changes or suggest them to people who have the power to make changes. It might seem elementary but I have worked with in the past and continue to work with people who quite frankly do not care and will continue to do the same dumb things over and over even if they know they don't work. And THOSE are the people who set the rest of us up for errors and open us up to litigation. That is why people are sued sucessfully not because of one error but because they continue to do the same thing over and over again even though they knew of the potential for trouble.

Just a few years ago, there was no serious organized effort in healthcare to improve patient safety. Physicians and hospitals are notoriously reactive, not proactive. I see that changing in a big way, so it is possible.

MmacFN · Apr 30, 2006

What are you talking about? I didn't call anyone unintelligent, go back and reread the posts and try to understand what the exchange is about before you make accusations. Start at post #26 and catch up.

Hmmm

It sounds to me like you were excused because you are a healthcare professional, not because you are intelligentSo then you are suggesting the opposite of intelligent is what then?

MmacFN · Apr 30, 2006

Oh and i like this as well

That is why people are sued sucessfully not because of one error but because they continue to do the same thing over and over again even though they knew of the potential for trouble.

So by your logic when one of my best friends was sued because he missed a rare condition (cant be specific sorry) which occurs in less than 10% of the population he committed errors over and over?

Let me recap the case for you.

- Pt comes in with SOB.

- Pt gets full workup labs and xrays.

- Nothing found, but pt admitted due to continuing SOB

- Pt's attending in the hospital dosent find the rare condition

- Pt dies in hospital and rare condition is found post mortem

- Pts family sues everyone.

The ER physician friend of mine had been practicing for 15 yrs without a single case OR settlement without admission of guilt (a near miracle nowadays). It takes two years before his insurance finally settles even though no court would hear the case and the local physician board dismissed the complaint.

His insurance premiums went up.

Please.. explain how this is "continue(ing) to do the same thing over and over again".

Lastly, if you think this is an isolated event you have not been in healthcare long enough or are ignorant of the reality of US healthcare liability. A liability that is soley the doing of lawyers not a reflection of reality.

You might take a peek at systems such as the UK, AU and Canada where medico-legal liability is almost non-existant compared to the USA.

rn29306 · Apr 30, 2006

Hmmm
It sounds to me like you were excused because you are a healthcare professional, not because you are intelligentSo then you are suggesting the opposite of intelligent is what then?

:w00t:

SharonH, RN · Apr 30, 2006

Hmmm
It sounds to me like you were excused because you are a healthcare professional, not because you are intelligentSo then you are suggesting the opposite of intelligent is what then?

*sigh* Okay, I'll connect the dots for you guys.

jwk: Juries are just not that smart - they are composed largely of people that were too stupid to get off of jury duty (be honest, spare me the civic responsibility crap). Plaintiff's lawyers in civil cases and defense lawyers in criminal cases DON'T want intelligent jurors - they want people they can manipulate to their way of thinking, regardless of the facts.

Sharon: As for dumb people serving on juries, if you are called for jury duty it is your legal duty to serve. The difference between not doing your legal duty and not doing your civic duty is jail time in case you didn't know. I think it's pretty smart to try to avoid that.

jwk: As far as being CALLED to serve on jury duty - I've been five times in the last 13 years in Fulton County, YOUR county SharonH, RN. I sit through voir dire until they get to me. "OH, you're in the healthcare field? You're EXCUSED"Why would an intelligent person be excused? Because they're intelligent. Because attorneys don't like health care professionals in drug cases.

Sharon: ??? It sounds to me like you were excused because you are a healthcare professional, not because you are intelligent. That's one heck of an extrapolation you made.

Do you get it now? I was merely questioning jwk's claim that he got off because he was intelligent when it sounds to me like he got off because he is a healthcare professional. I just wanted him to clarify that conclusion, thus the question marks.

I gotta tell you, this was an interesting debate. You guys made some valid points and I know I scored some. But I no longer have the patience for the juvenile bs like I used to so I'm going to bow out for now. It was good while it lasted.

jenniek · May 1, 2006

Well, I think JWK was excused because he was an intelligent healthcare provider. How about that?

SigmaSRNA · May 1, 2006

I don't drink a lot of coffee either but most people don't drink it hot enough to give them third degree burns, so it was not necessary to keep it that hot jwk; that's the point. If it will burn your leg, then it will burn your tongue and throat. Who drinks coffee that hot??? And once again, McDonald's had been warned hundreds of times about the dangerous temperature of their coffee. What is your response to that? The only people not taking responsibility in this case is McDonald's.
Oh and one more thing, you continue to be confused on the facts of that case. The lady in question was not driving. The car was not moving. They were stopped and when she removed the lid on her coffee, some of it spilled. That's the danger in trying to second guess juries in this case when you are not hearing all the facts.
??? It sounds to me like you were excused because you are a healthcare professional, not because you are intelligent. That's one heck of an extrapolation you made.
That's a whole of guessing on your part.

Malpractice companies are required BY LAW to maintain adequate reserves for payments. They don't set those reserve amounts - the state does. Many of these companies are non-profit, including a large physician-owned company in Georgia. Premiums are based on an assessment of RISK, just like your auto, home, life, health, and disability insurance. Sure the insurance companies invest that money. Why? To try to keep premium costs lower. If the money just sat there, premiums would be even higher. Thank God the GA legislature was finally controlled by Republicans last year and got some decent tort reform passed.

Yeah, it is one of the most ignorant and mean-spirited laws around, like a lot of the laws the GOB (good ole boys) legislature passed. One section of that tort reform law has already been struck down because it was unconstitutional.

I don't dare argue that there are not a lot of frivolous lawsuits. I have had people walk in the door threatening to sue over water on the floor and because they didn't get their meal on time. But by and large, the nuisance lawsuits are settled out of court which cheeses me off. It's not fair that the ones with merit are punished.

As far as temperature of coffee, its about tolerance. Some people can drink coffee the temperature of the sun; some like it cold. But to ask who would drink coffee that hot?; some people can some people can't. If it was that hot she shouldn't have been able to keep it between her legs (I'm thinking).

Secondly, I got in a fender bender (not my fault, trust me) ;no one was hurt and I received a little less than one million letters from attorneys. Not all attorneys are bad, but it makes you wonder.

How about we send a law to congress mandating a STP (Standard Temperature/Pressure) of coffee?

deepz · May 11, 2006

Harvard study announced today reports that 40% of medical malpractice lawsuits are based on bogus claims. 4 in 10!

Keep those cards and letters coming -- to Congress.

http://capwiz.com/aoa-net/home/

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TheLemur · May 11, 2006

As far as temperature of coffee, its about tolerance. Some people can drink coffee the temperature of the sun; some like it cold. But to ask who would drink coffee that hot?; some people can some people can't. (Standard Temperature/Pressure) of coffee?

I would respond to this by saying that coffee the temperature of the sun would exist in gas or plasma form and would not be tolerated by anyone .....not for long anyway.