MD not present for code??

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My husband is a nurse who works at a different hospital than I do, and he been there a few years. We're just biding our time until he can find a job at a different place. The stories he tells me about what he has to put up with makes my hair curl. I would love to tell you a few nightmares that stick out in my head just to feel better from venting about them, but I really wish for advice or perceptions from any experienced nurses and anyone in nursing administration on this one incident that recently occured.

A patient (not my husband's) unfortunately coded early in the AM on NOC shift and this patient did not survive. This was a major shock to everyone involved; this patient, even though in their 60's, was rock stable, and was awaiting to go to surgery to have a lap chole. The protocol at his facility is that the ED physician comes to the unit to run the code, but the hospitalist (who's the patient's PCP during night shift) needs to be present to help recount patient's history, work through H's and T's, etc. The hospitalist on shift is notorious for being sub-par (writing the most ridiculous orders, taking forever to call back when paged, etc.) and did not arrive when paged for this code. This was no surprise to my husband, because he overheard this particular doctor say once, "Oh, it's silly for me to go to my patient's codes, because the ED docs always run the codes anyway." :mad:

The ED doc asked my husband to page them again. He did, and when they called back, the hospitalist said to my husband, "I'll be there in 20 minutes (!!!)... mumble...mumble."

He said, "I didn't hear what you said." And after some more coaxing, they finally said, "I said, 'I'll be there in 20 minutes (again... can you believe that crap!?). I left the hospital to get a cup of coffee." My husband relayed that to the ED doc and, of course, the ED doc went nuts. Apparently, leaving the hospital while on duty is typical for this particular hospitalist, but this ED doc only had heard rumors until now. He wanted the whole incident written up, and rightly so, because from what my husband understood, there was no way anyone could have foreseen this patient dying.

The charge nurse (who was this patient's nurse) encouraged my husband to document the phone conversation in the patient's chart, and as a result, all of the hospitalists are mad at him now for documenting it. His nurse manager has just given him a warning, and I think this is just another incident that's going to make him look harder for a job elsewhere.

I'm just baffled and I don't know what to tell him. I work at a large university hospital, and I usually have to kick doctors out of codes for just being in the way and gawking, so being told about there being not enough doctors at a code is foreign to me!

My biggest question is this: Do you think it was wrong for my husband to document the phone conversation? I feel like all objective data should be documented, and that this doctor has been playing with fire for a while now and should pay the price for their negligence. Even if their presence probably wouldn't improve the outcome, I still feel that they should have been there. I also feel that since the hospitalists are employed by the hospital, they should NOT leave the hospital for any reason whatsoever, and certainly should notify another MD to sign out to them if they absolutely have to. I can understand how it can be viewed at "tattling" by the hospitalist team, as well, but hearing about this "'good ol' boy mentality" among the hospitalist team ticks me off. What do you think of this situation? What's protocol at your hospital? Thanks everyone!

I am not giving legal advice. That being said, I don't see any liability as far as the hospital is concerned; an ER doc was present. So what if the hospitalist wasn't? The ER doc should be fully capable of running the code, and if he's wasn't...then well, he needs to find a new line of work. As far as the nurse charting that the hospitalist was notified of code, that nurse was trying to cover himself legally. I would have charted that the ER doc was present and hospitalist notified at xx o'clock. Any organization that is chastizing someone for trying to protect himself legally gets a big "boo!" in my book. If they didn't like the wording, they could provide education. Also, maybe I am ignorant here, but when is it the nurses responsiblity to write an incident report on an MD? I would have just gone to my NM. Seeing that there was a doc present though, I wouldn't have worried myself with the issue. JMHO.

Specializes in Hospice / Psych / RNAC.

An incident report should have been initiated. Those types of things don't go in a patients chart. Bad move.

An incident report should have been initiated. Those types of things don't go in a patients chart. Bad move.

If the nurse charted (paraphrased), hospitalist notified at xx o'clock and hospitalist stated that he would be there in 20 minutes and nothing else was charted, I could understand how that could appear "bad." It would make it appear as though no MD were at the scene. However, if the nurse also charted that the ER doc was at the scene, then that doc should be adequate to provide sufficient care. Granted, I would have addressed the issue with the NM and just charted that the ER doc was present. But, nurses are "hung out to dry" consistently so I could understand this nurse's reasoning as far as wanting to cover his behind. The nurse charted the events as they actually took place i.e. truthfully. As another poster stated, an incident report could easily be "misplaced" in order to cover the doctor and I wouldn't put it past administrators of doing so. Why should this nurse be chastized for someone else not following protocol? Not arguing, just asking... I don't see anything wrong with charting when I call a doctor and he doesn't respond. His *** not mine.

My biggest question is this: Do you think it was wrong for my husband to document the phone conversation? I feel like all objective data should be documented, and that this doctor has been playing with fire for a while now and should pay the price for their negligence. Even if their presence probably wouldn't improve the outcome, I still feel that they should have been there. I also feel that since the hospitalists are employed by the hospital, they should NOT leave the hospital for any reason whatsoever, and certainly should notify another MD to sign out to them if they absolutely have to. I can understand how it can be viewed at "tattling" by the hospitalist team, as well, but hearing about this "'good ol' boy mentality" among the hospitalist team ticks me off. What do you think of this situation? What's protocol at your hospital? Thanks everyone!

1. Why did you husband have to document it? he physically did not do anything to the patient. The charge nurse used him for a scape goat to get to the doctor.

2.There is an MAR for the patient history, to look up pertinent information.

3. That is the difficult part, proving that the hospitalists presence would have made a difference to the outcome.

4. If the ED doctor was thoroughly upset, he had greater authority to push the write-up than your husband did.

5. Again, I am of the opinion, that your husband did not have to document in the patient's MAR since he physically did not do anything to the patient and was not the patient's nurse. Relayed the information to the nurse as was and she would document, doctor could not be reached.

PS- I'm a little confused- you keep using "they" should have been there. How many hospitalists were there?

I would have documented the conversation in the chart- just the facts- and covered my own butt just by being in the same city with this jerky doc.

I've documented when docs haven't returned my calls, and all I had left to do was call the consult doc (apologizing, but not knowing who else to call).

I've documented how many days I'd been trying to get a return call from faxes and calls to the office (as well as the individual calls and faxes).

I don't advocating "emotional" words... just "dr x notified of code, which started at __;__ am/pm, states he will be here in 20 minutes".... then in 20 minutes, chart "dr x is/is not present in room as code continues".

Risk management is not looking out for my butt- they look after the hospital.

I would have never documented the hospitalist not being there in the patient's chart. It sets the hospital up for liability and it really has nothing to do with the code. A doctor was already there (the ED doc). I would have reported it to the Medical Staff Director but never put it in the patient chart. I can see why your NM talked to your husband about it. Bad advice from the Charge Nurse, IMHO. Risk Management is for all in the hospital, not just Administration. Your husband could be called to testify in court about this. :twocents::nurse:

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

i recognize facilities like this.......and i've lost a job because of it and taking the moral high ground. i have had 2 facilities that the hospitalist would leave the building. one had an er doc....one didn't. one that had the er doc the hospitalist would actually be covering another hospital at the same time. he'd be in person for one and the other (mine) by phone.

an interesting thread that pertains to this was just posted...

moral courage in healthcare: acting ethically even in the presence of risk

today 02:06 am written by nrskarenrn pa.png award_star_gold_15000.gif staff.gif staff | 6 comments

https://allnurses.com/nursing-activism-healthcare/moral-courage-healthcare-602023.html

as a nurse and supervisor i would advise the nurses to document attempts at reaching any md. if the md gets upset maybe he should not have left the building.

pt found non responsive no palpable pulse no resps......code blue called see code blue sheet. hospitalist paged by j.smith rn and returned page. md stated not in facility "will be there in 20 min" no new orders recieved ed md at bedside. pcp and family notified.....transfer to morgue, icu ect.

if the expectation is that the hospitalist is to be in house and respond to all codes then an incident report should be written up where the details would be further explained. if the ed md wanted the hospitalist written up as the supervisor i would address this with the medical director of the ed and advise them to write him up themselves as it is usually more effective comming from a peer.

i think your husband should document the nights events he could do so in the chart just chart what he witnessed and document in more detail and give them to the manager or supervisor. the patients nurse documenting the md was paged by j. smith rn is sufficient and then further explanations done and given to the manager or supervisor. as xtxrn says....if it isn't documented it isn't done.

side note....there is an on going debate....mostly in small hospitals about the ed md responding when the hospitalist is there. there has been some debate about billing and emtala laws that have yet to be settled. that debate is complicated and on going and i'm not even sure i understand.......but when in a pinch the ed md usually is the one to help.

in the case that i had no md......i called 911.....is was a ltac..... the fight ensued.....i won the debate but lost my job.....no great loss....:smokin:

other hospitals i have worked, the hospitalist stays in house. if they leave they must sign out to another md.....usually the ed md ( or the other hospitalist if there is one) and return asap! jmho.:)

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